The Soviet system used psychiatry as a weapon by diagnosing political opponents as mentally ill in order to confine them as patients instead of trying them in court. Anyone who challenged the state such as dissidents, writers, would-be emigrants, religious believers, or human rights activists could be branded with fabricated disorders like sluggish schizophrenia. This turned normal political disagreement into supposed medical pathology and allowed the state to present dissent as insanity.
Once labeled in this way, people were placed in psychiatric hospitals where they could be held for long periods without legal protections. Harsh treatments were often used to break their resolve. The collaboration between state security organs and compliant psychiatrists created a system where political imprisonment was disguised as medical care, letting the Soviet regime suppress opposition while pretending it was addressing illness rather than silencing critics.
So it’s like lemmy.ml
You’d be hard pressed to find a communist system that doesn’t inevitably end up like this.
In b4 “ackshully that’s not real communism”. Sure, sure.
We used to give lobotomies to those who didn’t fit in right in capitalist workplaces.
RIP Rose Kennedy
Pretty sure America does that.
They certainly are trying with calling people who hate Trump by calling it “Trump Derangement Syndrome.”
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted when just this year, Minnesota senators were trying to make “TDS” a legitimate mental illness
Right wing traitor lunatics in the US have gotten closer and closer to classifying opposition to them as mental illness.
This is very common in authoritarian governments. They did the same kind of thing in Pinochet’s Chile, for example.
The Soviet Union at its height had the largest percentage of incarcerated individuals, more than double the USA’s percentage of the population today. These were hard labor camps, too, where millions worked until they died.
this is only true for the stalin years i think.
in any case, living in a country without due process kinda sucks
Yeah it actually got better even before Stalin died, but yeah.
This is wrong and you’re a shitbag liar. Don’t think people don’t see you out here spending your free time floating thread-to-thread just to shit on socialism.
Peak U.S. incarceration rate in 2008 (it’s highest) was about 760 per 100,000 people in the total population. The average imprisonment rate in the Soviet Union during the Gulag era was 714 per 100,000 residents. Some Soviet incarceration rates between 1934 and 1953 were likely the highest ever recorded for a modern nation. More than six million people in the U.S. are now under some form of correctional supervision—more than the number imprisoned in the Gulag at its peak.
Some sources:
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Gopnik, Adam (30 January 2012). The Caging of America. The New Yorker.
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Applebaum, Anne (2003). Gulag: a history. By Anne Applebaum. ISBN 978-0-7679-0056-0.
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Liptak, Adam (28 Feb 2008). 1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars, New Study Says. The New York Times.
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Getty, J. Arch; Rittersporn, Gabor T.; Zemskov, Viktor N. “Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-war Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence”.
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Rosefielde, Steven (2007). The Russian economy: from Lenin to Putin. By Steven Rosefielde. ISBN 978-1-4051-1337-3.
Peak U.S. incarceration rate
The average imprisonment rate in the Soviet Union
Uh-huh. Not like that rings the statistics manipulation alarm at all or anything.
«Is normal, ignore that товарисщ»
Some Soviet incarceration rates between 1934 and 1953 were likely the highest ever recorded for a modern nation.
Did uhhh… did you mean to paste this bit or forget to trim it before you posted? Is the US not a “modern nation?” Aren’t you calling the guy who said “soviets locked up more % than current US” a “shitbag liar” while posting evidence that supports his point? The fuck is going on, were you trained on shit data? You need a better prompt or something?
Uh-huh. Not like that rings the statistics manipulation alarm at all or anything.
Not really; if you read (lmao) more into it, you’d find that those scholars that I cited argue that it’s preferable to use averages rather than try to get precise YoY level numbers because it’s difficult to source consistent data for several chunks of time and regions.
Did uhhh… did you mean to paste this bit or forget to trim it before you posted? Is the US not a “modern nation?”
The “modern nation” reference was talking about the group of post-industrial nations at the time in which the USSR existed. I.e. “for all modernized, non-developing nations at that time”.
But I hear you, fam. Fair criticism. I used two different adjectives to describe the relative parity between the two countries. Silly of me.
But since you also clearly prefer to fling shit rather read a fucking book or two, I’ll distill a line for you that’ll hopefully stick:
At its peak in 1953, the estimated incarceration rate in the USSR was around 1,558 per 100,000.[1]
That’s less than the 2022 US rate calculated by the USBJ statistics I quoted in a separate post. Certainly not double the US’s current incarceration rate. I suppose you’ll bitch about me comparing current US rate to the 1953 rate, but that’s why it’s a fucking rate/per population. Moreover, the point I was making is that the US has gotten worse than the days of the USSR’s Gulags.
But sure. It’s entirely possible I’m just manipulating statistics and providing citations to nefariously dispute—** checks notes **—the guy who spams Stalin memes, gets banned from communities for calling people tankies, and who spouted a random take without any attempt whatsoever to provide supporting evidence.
«Is normal, ignore that товарисщ» Go fuck yourself, patriot. :)
[1] E. Belova, P.R. Gregory. “Political economy of crime and punishment under Stalin”. Publ. Choice, 140 (3–4) (2009), pp. 463-478.
Sure, averages are better, but nonetheless instead of being consistent and using the average for both, you use the “peak” of one and “average” of another, as if that doesn’t look suspicious.
I’m not even saying the US doesn’t incarcerate more people per capita, I’m saying using “peak v avg” is a bad system because at best it makes you look like a liar.
Also I’m saying you’re probably a tankie if you’re on lemmy defending the USSR, yeah. Walks like a duck and talks like a duck and all.
Ёб твою мать.
>> ignores explicit response to original claim with the requested follow-up statistic
>> conflates objection to whitewashing the American carceral state with pro USSR sentiment
>> repeats childish insult for which OP was being called out
>> makes duck analogies mid chirping
>> hurls misogynistic insult to “fuck your mom” in Russian
You’re not beating the illiteracy accusation.
I s’pose you’re right. Walks like a chauvinistic Russian Nazi, talks like a chauvinistic Russian Nazi and all. 😗
Why are you comparing the peak year of the usa numbers with an average rate over a longer period for the ussr? Insulting others also doesn’t help your credibility. Nothing you said disproves the assertion of the person that you’re calling a liar.
Can yall please pretty please stop fucking supporting horrible regimes and then also trying to use them as examples of socialism? You’re not helping anyone. You’re literally only hurting the appearance of socialism.
Its like you don’t get that you actually have to sell people on the idea. You certainly won’t convince people with bashing people over the head with delusional or pedantic at best history rewritings/retellings about horrible people.
Those people were bad, socialism is good. Separate the ideas. Everything is better this way.
It’s because some parts of Lemmy are actually just psyops for Russia and China, just like all those facebook groups during the 2016 elections and all those foreign maga influencers outed during a recent leak.
There is also the question if you are working for some group. Hcf has provided numbers that refute your statement. Is there a reason why they can be doubted or do I have to assume that your statement was made-up?
I already responded to HCF’s claims.
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incarcerated
What an ugly word! Oh no no no they were being cured of their mental illnesses in dedicated institutions and provided with advanced education in special schools.
The school of digging frozen turf in Siberia while starving for instance or the hospital of getting beaten with a phonebook
Link to source?
Oh you mean like they want to do with trump derangemnt syndrome? Yeah, it’s out of the dictatorship playbook.
I’m sure this comments section is going to be thoroughly hinged
That’s why we are on Lemmy though, to have broader points of view without much censorship.
Yeah, waiting utill guys from lemmy@ml and lemmy@hexbear come here and start protecting the USSR.
Jokes aside, is there any really independent instance? Or at least one that kinda in the middle?
Cause currently it feels like one side of lemmy on crack and support Soviets (which I can’t stand, cause I lived in post-soviet country and I know why soviet system failed = cause it’s piece of shit), while other heavily tripping on LSD, while supporting palestine (which I can’t stand, cause I’m not into killing and raping, no matter the excuse “Al Jazeera” propagandize).
From my perceptive both are in da wrong and I get shit from both sides, lmao. Do I like, get back to reddit? Or there some place that won’t ban me for my “radical opinion”?
Quite, I fully intend to have civil and reasonable fact based discussions about the USSR which will not trail off into tribalistic whataboutist tirades.
This user has been banned from hexbear.net
ml wiped out his whole family
How does one have a monopoly on eggs in a non-hypetindustrial country? Did grandpa invent the chicken and visit every village and start renting out hens XD
Eggs aren’t exactly hyperindustrial, but after the fall of the Qing dynasty entailed a lot of private acquisition to feed the foreign business interests flooding in.
I dunno if there ever was a monopoly on eggs for all of China, but maybe in the export industry though.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for a billionaire that made money by hoarding a basic necessity?
.ml would have deleted it, and banned every account that read it.
Friendly fire included?
It is a rite of passage
deleted by creator
What an unexpected turn of events…
Only considered it?
May want to check out what’s happening in USA and UK.
Fucking Trump wants to deport citizens for disagreeing with him.
Trump derangement syndrome. Same shit.
I came in here to say the same thing. It was pointed out that the USSR did this when Republicans first started with that nonsense, and it was my first thought upon seeing this post.
That TDS bullshit is a thought-terminating cliche, but this really is different - actual imprisonment, transfer to remote Siberian work camps, etc…
The point is that that’s the end conclusion of TDS if things keep progressing
Yeah, I would not be surprised if they tried to escalate “Trump Derangement Syndrome” to this level.
Sounds oddly familiar to “If you’re against the online safety act you’re siding with pedophiles.”
Don’t let this distract you from the fact that America and capitalism and the CIA are all bad and this is all ultimately their fault
Imperialism sucks, fuck USA, agreed!
The first thing I thought was “damn so like future america” lol
Won’t distract me that’s for sure
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you’re an idiot
Russia does it too; transexual? Mental illness.
Did I forget to say they also forbid “mentally ill” people to have a driving permit?
USSR never went away. And if you dig deeper, it’s still just russian empire in a trench coat
took off the purple robes, but on a red hat.
took off the red hat, put on a capitalist neoliberal necktie.
now took off the capitalist neoliberal necktie, put on some ironheeled jackboots.
the goal is to take off the jackboots and put on the purple robe
And Soviet Socialism never went away either, it just reorganized upper management. Instead of the state owning a few mega companies, a few mega companies now own the state. In either case, it is the people controlling the human/natural resources paying off politicians to overlook all the horrible shit they do.
Communism as a theme is definitely making a comeback if you talk to Russian people in Russian. They think theirs is different from “western Communism” though.
I speak zero Russian but would love to know what “western communism” entails in the mind of a Russian person who holds these opinions. Alas.
The word communism has less to do with the original meaning than teachings of prosperity gospel church with the bible.
Russians have very different meaning for this word because of decades of Soviet indoctrination, Americans think completely different thing entirely about what it is.
However, there is a thing that is true for all of them: they don’t just believe that their version is the only one correct, they cannot fathom the reality where different definition even exists
Imperialism?
Not just trans people— all LGBTQ+ people are regarded this way
Also the whole idea behind Trump Derangement Syndrome. Unsurprisingly, those fuckers can’t even be original in their awfulness.
“Liberalism is a mental disease!”
A phrase often said by MAGAs. It’s no distance at all saying the same thing about nationalism.
The phrase comes from a shitpile book with the title: Liberalism is a Mental Disorder by some guy trying to eclipse Rush Limbaugh in 2005.
It’s not just a thing they say - these people genuinely believe that compassion is a mental illness.
I’ve seen “conservativism is a mental disease” too. People love that shit.
To be fair, you have to have zero empathy—or extremely low intelligence—to still vote Conservative, when we’re literally living in the Information Age. Either way, I say both are in fact mental disorders.
A lot of it is fear, too. Those people are raised to fear anything different.
I would put their fears in the “low intelligence” category.
also LOW information to. i saw some pseudo-leftist YTUBERS(whole drama behind them if you followed them) that are magats that are very low information. pre-pandemic they brought up an OBAMA era, oil pipline(canada-usa) and they could not even formulate sentences or words how to discredit the news. (but any trump related events they were immediately silent on, hmm seems like people figured out your allegiance to which party)everyone in the comments said you shouldnt comment on things you do not know.
That’s the spirit.
fundamentalism+ actual mental illness is a dangerous mix. i once saw a video of a guy with schizo and said he fell into alt-right views, and really screwed up in the head.
How about liberalism + actual mental illness, is that dangerous?
(Or any ism for that matter.)
I think that’s far less common among the left than the saying “peer reviewed study shows conservatism highly correlates with mental disorder”.
Liberalism is not as dogmatic as other ideologies, because liberalism itself encourages free thinking and going against the grain.
