No one could have ever seen this coming
Looks like Apple should have made sure their precision engineered hinge was also accurate engineered.
I haven’t heard an accuracy vs precision joke for years, that’s brilliant :D
Would you make a quality product if you knew that people would buy it no matter what?
Yes, which is one of the many many reasons I’ll never be a billionaire (unless the currency devalues by more than three orders of magnitude).
Precision engineered hype and sales.
99% of the budget went on advertising, 0.9% went on tokens to Vibe code the engineering and 0.1% on manufacturing
Hardly matters, the sort of people who buy such a pointless, gimicky and overly expensive phone will keep buying Apple regardless.
I bought a refurbished Samsung Fold 5 and I returned it after one week. A phone isn’t something that I should have to babysit.
it’s folded 10,000 times by an expert Japanese phonesmith before it reaches the consumer. It does make it a little brittle but do you want a phone that’s not been properly broken in? It’s just the price you pay for tradition and brand loyalty.
So the maximum number of folds it could take was 10,006. Unlucky.
I am an old IT guy. This was a hard and fast rule: Never buy version 1.0 of anything.
Counterpoint: if you want version 4.0 of something. Someone needs to prove it’s viability.
You can buy v1.0, just know it for what it is and only buy in if you can accept the risk.
I never bought a folding phone, but I want one and I appreciate the early adopters.
There are always others who want to be first and have that ‘look at me’ factor. Let them jump and prance through the first few versions while the kinks are worked out.
As a occasional bleeding edge buyer - I disagree with the motive of ‘look at me’. (caveat: This post is entirely ‘look at me’, but I’m proving my point, not desiring attention, and have never even thought about my purchases this way until now)
I had an HTC Magic - one of the very early Android phones - not because I wanted to be cool, but because I wanted the tech and google was still this sort of open, consumer-friendly company at the time vs Apple. That phone was pretty solid compared to the candy-bar or flip phones of the era, aside from battery life, but compared to modern smart phones it was garbage.
I had an OG Rift VR headset (CV1). It did what it claimed, but it was low resolution, clunky, heavy, and unpleasant to use. But now we have Steam’s Frame.
When I was a teenager, working retail at a tech store, I saved up to buy an early LCD monitor. Now you can’t even buy CRTs outside of niche vendors.
I want quality EVs. I never bought a Tesla, but I wanted one before the crazy came out and just couldn’t afford it. Now we have every auto manufacturer making EV options.
I want quality folding phones, but my normal shape phone is still functional and I haven’t needed to buy a new one for a few years. When I do, it’ll probably fold. I’ll be v3 or so by that time, but still showing there’s a desire.
I want to be clear that I’m not disagreeing with your ‘let others work out the kinks’, but sometimes I’m fine with having the first iterations because I want the resulting tech.
Consider this my investment strategy - but instead of personal profit, I’m investing in innovation.
I was an early adopter for mobile phones, and I was so fuckin excited to get one! Bought one of those things that would be a brick today, had a mouthpiece you had to flip down, and an aerial you had to pull up. Back then it seemed like sleek star trek tech. Took it back to the shop because the signal infrastructure just wasn’t there. Stuck with my pager for another couple of years lol
Same goes for the first model year of vehicles
Yup.
This shouldn’t be a 1.0 version of a phone with a folding screen, though, android phones have been doing this for a loooong time now and they are not and haven’t been flaky tech for some time now. I guess you’re right about Apple and this SKU, though. A bit surprising, I’m not an iPhone person but I always expect them to do pretty rigorous QA.
It is ver 1.0 for Apple. Same as touchscreen for laptops. Apple hasn’t done it.
They’re always a few versions behind, but somehow manage to get credit for the “innovation”.
That’s called marketing. And a customer base willing to eat whatever garbage you’re feeding them.
They just call their stuff random names?
Oh this? It’s our dingligongle 5000. No, no it only LOOKS like a USB cable, but see that apple logo?
100% this, leave the first generation to the professionals (eg. reviewers) to find all the obvious flaws - then pick up the 2nd or 3rd iteration once they get most of the kinks ironed out.
Anything with a folding screen would also work…
this is like the Samsung Fold all over again…
No it’s like the iPhone 6 ‘Bend Gate’ all over again.
Precision seemingly doesn’t really matter if the design is shit.
Every phone maker seems convinced that if they can be the one to make this work, they’ll be the champion of world forever, or something.
I can’t understand why a user would even want this. How many users do want this?
You can’t understand why someone would want phone that becomes a tablet? Really?
For real. Just last weekend I was at a conference and realized that I left my tablet at home and the agenda/workbook for the event was PDF. I was pinching and scrolling with my iPhone while my colleague next to me opened up his Galaxy Fold and was reading everything fine. I mean, yeah, it’s not a common need for me, but there’s definitely use-cases for this–especially for people who have to read digital documents on the go a lot and don’t want to have to carry extra devices just to do so.
You’re saying there’s been zero times you’re looking at something on your phone and would like a bigger screen for it? Not once have you had something on your phone and wished it was full size? Or gone to open it on a tablet or computer instead?
All those times i also wanted a mouse and keyboard.
Ok, well I’m not sure why I’d need a keyboard to read an ebook. Why would you?
You can do that by connecting it through the usb-c port
fucking love your username (con mucho chicharrón).
I can say as a Pixel 9 Pro Fold owner, I have used it. And never once have I really needed a full keyboard and mouse for what I’d even think of using my phone for.
I only use it for some mobile gaming, and websites that do very poorly on mobile despite that being the only online device for so many people nowadays.
Having actually use one as a daily driver for over a year,… it’s not worth it. It’s not worth the additional weight and bulk, carrying it around all the time for the handful of times I do use it. And without a significant battery increase to justify despite being literally twice as thick as a normal phone.
You’re the problem when it comes to big tech, you realize this, yes? Why shouldn’t I buy this unnecessary tech? Why shouldn’t I use AI as much as I want? Sure, put on the ring, what harm could come of it? Of course I want a camera on my glasses!
Having never owned a tablet, it’s either a phone or my pc monitor. I even have an iPhone 12 MINI, and I’m a bigger dude so it looks like a business card in my hand.
Same here. iPhone 13 mini and I’m a bigger dude too. Can’t stand these gigantic phablets, and the form factor of this foldable is dumb.
I was actually hoping that the form factors would be a compact phone that would fit into women’s pockets that unfolded to a “standard” phone size (I also have a mini but it is clearly on its last legs)
Not the person you asked but yes actually. I never want more screen on my phone. I barely use it. I have the Pixel because it can run Graphene OS, and I want that, but if I could run Graphene on it I’d want something smaller. It’s so annoying to carry the thing around. I use my phone to test and call people. And to use organic maps and gps to tell me when my next turn is. Basically nothing else. Altho if people want to use their phone as their everything device then they’re free to I guess. Just not for me. So I’d never want a folding one.
Thats what laptops are for.
And you always have a laptop when out and about during the day? While on transit? Waiting for an appointment?
There are a lot of people that don’t own a computer anymore. Their entire digital life is through their phone. It’s the only portal to the web that have.
And you always have a laptop when out and about during the day?
No, certain things can wait.
A LOT of things can wait.
Nope I cannot. But I’m just fine leaving the house without any kind of device on my person at all. I’ve had to be “connected” by pager(s) and phone 24/7/365 for years when I worked in public safety. And now that I’m retired, I’m so over it.
It’s taken a few years, but I’m finally free.
I want to follow in on your footsteps, for sure. I can’t right now because of work and kids, but I’ve been slowly going out to walk with nothing but an MP3 player, and have my phone off during commute as well.
The first few times I was honestly anxious. Now, shit, I was part of that army of drones out there, what a fucking eye opener, honestly.
You have made the first step. Good for you!
Not in this form factor, no. It’s too wide and… square to be convenient in either mode. The BlackBerry passport was a bad form factor for similar reasons.
For the same price with no tradeoffs? I’d like one. For a lot more with downsides? Nah, I’m good. I have very little need or desire for this. A normal phone shape handles 99.99% of my phone use cases perfectly. It’d be nice to have, but it’s not worth much.
China phone manufacturers like Xiaomi, OPPO, Huawei already have 5th or 6th Gen folds and they are awesome. Many people here use folds. The build quality is outstanding.
Plus the software is actually designed to use either the full screen or split screen. What Apple have done is a joke. The few people that bought the Apple fold, are returning it because the software is useless.
I’m confused, are you in China or the United States? Your comment history strongly alludes to both, depending on what you’re saying.
Been using my Honor Magic V2 for 2.5 years now, might be the best phone I’ve ever had. If I could change two things, it would be perfect: I’d love for it to be 1-2cm shorter and properly support third party launchers. Otherwise, no complaints at all.
Have a look at the Xiaomi 18 fold. It’s an interesting size and much more compact than the previous versions.
Thanks! It’s similar to the Samsung Fold 8 in terms of size, right? I tried that one in a shop recently because I thought the size was interesting but it felt a bit too wide for my hands. The Xiaomi with its rounded corners might be a better fit though, thanks. I’m also waiting for more info on the rumored Motorola Razr Flex which seems to be a very interesting form factor as well (even smaller, and not as wide).
I do. Consolidating my phone and tablet into a single device would be very convenient. Adding support for an external monitor, keyboard and mouse to replace my laptop would be even better. I didn’t buy a Duo not because I don’t want the product, but because I know they won’t work well for another few iterations (at least).
I’ll join the chorus. If the price-point were right and the tech were reliable, I’d happily trade a good amount of thickness in order to have the option of an iPad Mini or an iPhone, but in the footprint of the latter when not in use. I really prefer to carry my phone in my front pocket and not to EDC a bag.
It’s just that the price-point is wrong and the tech is not reliable.
this is a solution for a problem they made. they took away the small devices, so they could force these idiotic foldables.
I’m on my 3rd or 4th foldable now, not because they’ve been failing, but because I want it and honestly don’t see myself going back to a non-foldable now.
I can’t understand why a user would even want this. How many users do want this?
I dunno what to tell you, I love the thing. I’ve liked the idea of foldables for a while. My buddy got the Z Fold 7 and loves it, I picked up the Duo and it’s great for me.
Foldables certainly aren’t the right fit for everyone, there are inherent trade offs. But I love the concept. I love having a small tablet with me everywhere. I love how compact the device is when folded. I’m enjoying a phone that is substantially different from every smartphone I’ve ever used. It reminds me of when smartphones were new and each one had things that made them unique.
I can certainly understand why people wouldn’t want one. But I find it surprising that you can’t understand why someone would.
Because it costs 2000 USD and breaks easily? There, that would be my number one reason I wouldn’t want one, and my number one reason I don’t understand why someone would want one.
Again, I can understand why someone wouldn’t want one. Are you truly incapable of recognizing that other people have different device priorities than you do?
I use my phone more than any other device I own. It being expensive is justifiable if I get better use out of it. And it being fragile isn’t a problem for me, it’s plenty sturdy enough. I’ve not broken a phone in a very long time. So for me, personally, the two issues you raised that make you unable to understand why someone would want one do not deter me. Does that make sense?
No, that’s not the point at all. I can understand why someone would want a foldable device. What I can’t understand is why anyone would want a foldable, expensive, piece of junk.
Why would I want this? Because I’m sad and I fly around the world and I thought that instead of having a tablet and phone I could have it in one!
Then I listen to these tech YouTubers say that this is it! I bought my folding phone and I very rarely unfold it. Wasted so much money and I’m like bleh …
Then guess what? I see the YouTubers say, last year’s iteration wasn’t it, but this year’s one fixes it!
Urgh …
I bought my folding phone and I very rarely unfold it. Wasted so much money and I’m like bleh …
Basically the experience I had with my first smartphone: I got it into my head that having a foldout QWERTY keyboard would make writing more than just short text messages on a phone less weird and that getting a Nokia would also help ease the transition from dumb to smart since most of my previous phones had been Nokias.
Turns out I quickly stopped using that keyboard and the Symbian OS Nokia used back then was compatible with like a dozen apps or so 🤦🏻
Well, I’ve tried it (fold6) and after 23 months the inner foil started having bubbles, then it grew to a huge bubble along the crease and shortly after the display below the bubble was black.
So while it worked well and was useful, mostly with watching movies, photos or maps I switched back to a standard phone and would never use a foldable display again since my assumptions were proven.
I want one but then I go to T-Mobile and see that dammed crease in the middle and I know my OCD ass won’t be able to handle it.
And I work in the repair industry so it wouldn’t last very long. And it has no practical use. At all. It’s just a keeping up with the Jones gimmick and it’s made by apple. All their tech sucks they survive on nothing but name.
I wanted one. I tried to buy one. It sold out faster than I could click add to cart.
I currently have an iPhone 16 pro max and it isn’t big enough. I liked the idea of having a bigger screen on-demand, in a portable cellular form factor.
The only reason I’d want this is to have a smaller phone which I can open to a currently normal sized phone.
I don’t know why they keep pushing tablets on us.
Guys, we had the optimal form factor, the LG Wing, years ago! No folding displayed required!
I’m not even joking. I used mine for years and loved it.
I really miss my LG Wing. The USB port went out first and I used to charge it only with wireless charging for a few months but that’s just not viable for longevity. No shop around here wants to take a crack at repairing it for me.
Genuinely the second small screen is so useful. I can have my navigation and music player on screens and not muck about as much. I can list more but now I’m ashamed as most of what I use both for are for media consumption lol
They’re so easy to repair! You should have a crack at it yourself!
Guys, we had the optimal form factor, the LG Wing, years ago! I used mine for years and loved it.
I genuinely thought this would be some old ass phone from when before smartphones were a thing.
It came out in 2020. The phone I’m typing this on came out 1,5 years after that.
Also what is this monstrosity??
It’s awesome multi-tasking bliss, and it’s durable, and it’s easy to repair if you do break it!
I like the Surface Phone 2 form factor. Having the display be glass helps a ton, and the bezel inside is pretty small. It would be even better with an e-ink outer display; that’s plenty for most phone things, and then you could open it up for videos and such.
Yeah, another great phone that we need more versions of. LG also tried that via a case for the Velvet.
And the G7 and G8 before the Velvet.
In fact LG was one of the few ones to try the dual screen phones. For them, it’s via add-on cases. Then there’s the Microsoft Surface phones. But then you have no choice because it’s always attached. They’re more like prototype current foldable phones though.
I get the appeal, especially as I get older and my vision isn’t as good. Having a screen that can be bigger as needed helps in a number of ways. That said, no way I’d buy one because I don’t see how they survive in the long term.
me, i have a Motorola flip, excellent pockeabikity, tried the Samsung Fold 8 (not ultra) looks excellent for my use but I’m poor, so it stays on the display.
I for one can’t wait to see what Motorola brings out next year on the RAZR lineup that is fully compatible with GrapheneOS. If they manage that, with an inner screen that is 6.7" then I’m selling my Pixel. Otherwise, I guess I’m keeping the Pixel until it dies.
I thought the first Motorola with grapheneOS have been confirmed and it’s not a flip form factor. And it’s flagship. This caused a lot of jimmies rustled. I understand why, because Motorola is more known for their budget offering, but I also have seen why it has to be flagship because there are hardware stuff that’s needed by grapheneOS.
The Pixels having the proper security hardware on their poor performing on benchmarks SoC seems more like a happy coincidence to me. I’m happy to be politely corrected.
Yeah, I’ve had pretty much every pixel XL (for when they made smaller Pros because I need large screes) ever, except for the 5. My last one was the 10 Pro XL. Right now I use the 10 with GOS for personal and an 8 Pro in stock for a work phone.
I really would love a RAZR ultra with GOS, but we need to see if the hardware will meet the GOS requirements.
My understanding is that no Motorola hardware has been approved by GOS yet, and that the partnership actually means getting GOS involved in the choice of hardware and its implementation and architecture, but I could be wrong.
The concept is kinda cool. Take the Galaxy Fold 8 for example; a nice and compact phone that actually fits in your pocket and can be a tablet if you wanna watch a movie or something in bed or public transport.
I still wouldn’t buy one; spending over a grand on a phone that even if it holds up fine can be damaged by accidentally tapping on the screen wrong seems dumb. Nevermind that I personally wouldn’t buy a Samsung for multiple reasons.
can be damaged by accidentally tapping on the screen wrong
That’s not really a thing unless you mean tapping with a hammer or something. I’ve been using these since the Z Fold 3.
It’s not the most wise way to spend your money of course, but not everything needs to be.
Isn’t the inside screen really soft and prone to pressure damage?
Pressure damage? Like, accidental, with your fingers? No, neither is it especially scratch prone.
I think I was talking about the small permanent ridges you could make with your fingernails. It’s entirely possible that they solved that problem a few generations ago, though.
Nah, the outer layer of the flexible screen is quite rigid to the touch. You don’t leave marks with your fingernail. I’ve used TPU screen protectors on the inner screen that have that property, I think. If you look at the glare from a light source, you can see indents in that. But even then, it’s not something you otherwise notice.
I don’t want to seem like a breathless booster for flexible phones, they are too expensive to be considered practical, I think. But there are some misconceptions about them, some which seem to come from the first version of the Z Fold, which honestly does sound like a nightmare device.
I love the concept of phones like the Z Flip, don’t get me wrong, if someone convinces me that they’re just as durable as a normal phone I’d buy one
Investors want repeats of the iPhone and social media revolution. They won’t get it by making tweaks to the smartphone or social media platforms. Nothing will stop them from trying, but all of this is just spinning the wheels.
I have no desire for this. Id rather have an old school folding style type phone that folds flush so when you open it the display is across two sections with a miniscule gap. Like a phone sized Nintendo ds. Instead we get DS sized phones that are awkward as hell with so many typea of clothing.
These things would sell like hotcakes if they didn’t cost so much and were reliable. People want them, the tech just isn’t perfected yet, and who knows if the price will ever be reasonable.
Meh I like no tech and making attempts. I would never spend that money on a phone. I have never spent half that on a phone.
I like products not designed for absolutely everyone though, niche is nice
Phone new oogga booga phone go squish oogga booga
But but but my pocket companion? My AI slop firehose?
My engagement terminal???
MY ONLY FRIEND
Don’t worry, they still have the Apple phone sock to keep them company in these dark times.
I’m so glad I never fell for this gimmick. The tech looked sketchy from the beginning.
When the screen is fully floppy, that’s when Im in. Flexible electronic paper exists. Why not in a phone?
Probably because that stuff would fail if you carried it around in your pocket with your keys and folded it 8000 times, too.
I’m sure you’d get more than three days out of it…
If you’re talking about eInk, the refresh rate and color fidelity are unacceptable for an apple device. There are eink phones on AliExpress, though. Just don’t expect apple-level quality.
And while Moebius uses a plastic substrate, Carta and Kaleido use glass and can be pretty fragile. My Boox reader’s display cracked when I worked it out of its case.
It could be e-ink, but I was talking more about the paper properties.
For people who don’t watch video on mobile, an e-ink display would be great. I just wish there were more options.
Just like android a solution with no problem
Are you seriously suggesting that we don’t need competitors to Apple in the phone market?
You realise that pretty much every innovation in iOS has been in Android for years sometimes decades before implemented by Apple. I think the last major innovation from Apple was iTunes, and it was crap.
Apple probably didn’t plan for their planned obsolescence to work THIS quickly.
I’m a borderline fanboy but this was damn funny.
That’s the exact failure that happened on the bend test for Zak on JerryRigEverything. Crazy it’s happening without the full-muscle stress test.
The article says that the best guess is there’s a physical part of the hinge about there that must be perfectly aligned, and if it isn’t then that specific screen is eventually doomed.
Yeah, this boils down to a manufacturing engineering problem. There’s some process happening during assembly that’s resulting in these slipping by… or being allowed by.
EDIT: And I mean, yeah, the thing could’ve been designed better from the get go, but that ship sailed long ago.
I saw the test and the more glaring issue to me was that despite the IP68 rating, it utterly failed to withstand dust. It was technically still fully functional but wouldn’t close properly. Those are fundamental issues that basic QC at Apple should have caught during development
