Neither party campaign’s on climate policy so the problem is the party, not the voter.
Yeah but it’s peak lib to blame voters for not voting hard enough, instead of demanding the bare minimum from those in power.
SMH
Not sure where you saw that but it’s actually central to the DNC platform.
Personally, I think this is more of a media diet issue. Climate policy isn’t very engagement-baitey so the Social media algorithms don’t push it.
Biden forced rail-workers - who were striking for safer conditions - back to work. Less than a year later, a train derailment caused a massive chemical spill is Palestine, Ohio.
Uno reverse card
If so many people who care about the climate don’t vote, then why don’t politicians take a stronger line on the issue to appeal to them?
Exactly.
The United States has a problem with voter suppression, and a history of blaming societal problems on individuals to make it look like individual people are responsible instead of the people in charge.
Solid point. Part of it is a blame game as well. I try to stress how local policies are important. Yet you will still have politicians that will state they will do whatever to overturn popular vote. I mean take pot for example, 41/50 states and it’s only getting a reclassification.
Oh so we’re supposed to pretend that climate voters are so stupid they don’t understand that Republicans are bad for the environment?
No, you’re supposed to understand that people will be more motivated to vote if you appeal to them based on the policies they care about and follow through, instead of offering nothing beyond, “not the other guy.”
Why do you need to be “more motivated” if you care about climate change so much, when the options couldn’t be more clear? You are just making excuses for apathy.
How has the Democratic strategy of “at least we’re not the other guy” been working?
Why do you need to be “more motivated” if you care about climate change so much, when the options couldn’t be more clear?
I don’t know how I can possibly make this more simple. These people haven’t been motivated enough to vote for your party before. You want them to be motivated to vote for your party in the future. Therefore, you need to find a way to make them more motivated to vote for you. That’s why. This is not complicated.
You are just making excuses for apathy.
No, I’m simply shifting the focus to where it belongs.
There’s a mismatch between what the party does and what the people want, and your solution involves trying to change what the millions of people want instead of changing the handful of people who determine party policy. Not only is that completely undemocratic, it’s also completely impractical. Unless you have a magic wand you can wave that will turn millions of people into Lesser Evilists before you’ll need their votes, you’re gonna have to meet them where they’re at and give them things they want. Which is exactly how any democratic system is supposed to work.
It’s kind of amazing how entitled y’all are with your party. They’re supposed to be “public servants.” If a servant’s employer tells them to clean something, does the servant say, “It’s already clean enough, you need to learn to live with a little dust,” or do they do the thing they’re being fucking paid to do and clean it again, even if they think the request is stupid? The level of backtalk y’all give to the public is frankly unbelievable. You don’t act like public servants, you act like public masters, like you’re feudal lords who get to tell us what’s going to happen and we’re uppity rabble who needs to fall in line. You’ve got things completely upside down.
No one is going to open a restaurant where the target market is “people who don’t go to restaurants”. If you don’t vote you don’t matter to politicians and that’s all there is to it.
Yeah, that’s not true at all. The hundreds of millions spent on voter mobilization, get out the vote, rock the vote, voter education, voter registration, and all attendant campaigns is such an obvious massive counter to your inispid narrative.
And yet voter turnout is consistently low.
Because voters have figured out that voting doesn’t fucking matter. Once you realize that a) the country has always been run by a single fascist bloc b) with multiple fascist factions fighting for control and c) fronted by two PR firms with subsidiary PR firms that drive psychological manipulation of voters into believing that d) this time it really is the most important election in history and e) voting will fix it and f) if you vote correctly then the fascists you put in power will stop being fascist and g) actually make structural change - once that becomes obvious, voting is just not something people are motivated to do. And to be clear even people like me who believe all those things vote in vast numbers because it is a ritualized symbol and it has implications in social situations and dynamics. And even still huge numbers of people just don’t vote, which means massive numbers of people understand that the system is fully irredeemable.
You’re right Zohran Mamdani didn’t win NYC mayor. Fuck off bad faith troll. Who you working for?
Sewer socialists have a long history of winning in the USA, and also of being outmaneuvered entirely by the fascists in both parties, purged, and having nearly all of their progress completely undone.
Oh fuck you’re an ml bot. Not worth engaging with. Buhbye MAGAtankie shitbird.
LOL
Ad hominem
The purpose of those programs is to increase turnout, not cater to the political leanings of likely non-voters. Dems don’t give a shit what those people want they just want them to vote because statistically they would vote for Dems. The issues important to those voters rarely come up which is exactly my point.
I don’t really expect a well reasoned response from someone going around saying things like “Europe can save Ukraine by disbanding NATO” though. Pull your head out of Putin’s ass and have your own thoughts.
LOL. You’re fucking amazing. You came to the conclusion that voter turnout programs only exist because they want voters to vote for them but literally won’t do anything that those voters want? That’s your conclusion? You couldn’t reason your way out of a paper bag. Which makes sense because you think an American who has been raised by Americans in America and consumed all the same anti-Russian propaganda you have consumed our whole lives is somehow having someone else’s thoughts when they have thoughts that disagree with the propaganda you and I have both been raised on. You are doing the meme.
If Dems primary concern is the will of their voters then why are they constantly doing things the majority of their voting base disagrees with? You’re acting like Dems know exactly what the people want when the central political problem in America for the last 15 years is that they either don’t know or don’t care.
Also, if your own thoughts are not Russian propaganda then why is what you’re saying matching Russian propaganda word-for-word? Disbanding NATO doesn’t help anyone but Russia and somewhere in that brain of yours you know that. You’re twisting words to make unreasonable things sound reasonable on both of these issues
Oh, sorry, so you’re saying Dems are constantly doing things their voting base disagrees with? So then why should people vote for them? You’re not making a strong argument for your position there.
You think Russian propaganda is the only source of anti-NATO sentiment in the entire world? Have you heard of Heusinger? Are you aware of the controversial decisions to staff NATO with Nazi officers? Heusinger was never even tried at Nuremberg.
Disbanding NATO doesn’t help anyone but Russia and somewhere in that brain of yours you know that.
Pretty sure it would’ve helped the Libyans if the “defensive” alliance that waged an offensive war on them didn’t exist.
NATO is a tool of neocolonialism and there are countless neocolonies around the world that it harms. Even if it were “defensive” (which it absolutely isn’t) it maintains an oppressive status quo over the global majority and gives member states the ability to attack wantonly, without fear of retaliation.
Well yeah, obviously bullies only bully the nerds because the Anti-Bully Club is so anti-bully. If the Anti-Bully Club just disbands instead of defending nerds, then the bullies will have no reason to keep bullying the nerds! Duhhh! (/s)
You’ll never get good faith engagement with ml so all you can do is try to piss em off and waste their time.
Ad hominem
No one is going to open a restaurant where the target market is “people who don’t go to restaurants”.
???
When you open a restaurant, the only target market is people who don’t go to your restaurant. Looking into how to expand your business to people who don’t already go to restaurants is absolutely a valid line of inquiry that companies persue all the time. Maybe the reason they don’t eat out because it’s too expensive, and you can appeal to them with lower prices. Maybe the reason they don’t eat out is because they don’t know how good your food is, and you can address that with free samples. Maybe they have dietary restrictions and you can appeal to them by adding vegan or gluten free options. Restaurants, like any business, are constantly looking for ways to break into new sections of the market. So your analogy falls completely flat.
Look at, for example, Little Caesars which at least back when I was in school had cheap ass $5 pizzas, they tasted like shit but they were $5 so being a broke ass college student I ate there all the time when I might otherwise have not eaten out at all. And that’s why they focused on keeping the price low instead of making it actually good. Because at $5, even groceries wouldn’t be much cheaper.
Likewise, if a political party is uninterested in appealing to people who don’t already vote for them, it must mean that they’re satisfied with their current level of support. Which, considering the Dems lost the last election, doesn’t exactly seem to be working. And what, do you think you’ll have better luck trying, again, to appeal to “moderate” Republicans? Let me know how that goes, lol.
People who don’t eat at restaurants at all are obviously not the same as people who don’t eat at a restaurant that doesn’t exist. You said you understood that concept but then spent the rest of your comment describing people who want to eat at restaurants.
This is what your commitment to your narrative has done to you. It has made you believe that there is a category of people who don’t vote because that is what they prefer, and you’re so committed that you are willing to make nonsense arguments that posit the existence of people who eat food but specifically will not and never will eat food if it’s in a restaurant.
Nothing about your narrative is reasonable. Give people something they want and they will pursue it
People who don’t eat at restaurants at all are obviously not the same as people who don’t eat at a restaurant that doesn’t exist.
Legitimately don’t understand this word salad.
You said you understood that concept but then spent the rest of your comment describing people who want to eat at restaurants.
Someone who doesn’t currently eat at restaurants might start eating at them if the restaurants find a way to appeal to them. That’s not a complicated concept.
If I’m vegan, and no restaurants in my area offer vegan options, then I am someone who doesn’t eat at restaurants at all. If a restaurant opens up that does offer vegan options, or if an existing restaurant adds a vegan option, then I might start eating at restaurants. Do you not understand this concept?
Likewise, someone who doesn’t vote might start voting if they’re appealed to. This is equally uncomplicated.
No one is going to open a restaurant where the target market is “people who don’t go to restaurants”
There’s plenty of people opening restaurants on the basis of “this kind of cuisine is not available in this neighborhood. I think people would like it.”
Your analogy is incredibly flawed. People are able to go to more than one restaurant.
Why would you try to appeal to non-voters? They don’t vote. The right messaging won’t suddenly make non-voters voters.
Your message is literally why progressives hate Democrats and why your party only attacks progressives and actively funds and collaborates with MAGA
Democrats have shown time and time again who they work WITH and who they work Against.
Remember when the Democrats banded together to stop the scary revolutionary candidate bringing sweeping change for the people?
I do, it was Bernie, TWICE
Me when I reduce infinitely complex beings in static categories to fit my worldview.
Really? Metaphysical arguments? “X people are inherently this type of person and never won’t be” is such a lazy and uninspired argument.
Liberalism cannot question the status quo, as that status quo gets actively worse and worse from capitalism and imperialism. But hey… Those guys are actively making it worse, we just watch from the sides and maybe put some duct tape on it once in a while.
Ok so you lose then.
Lmao have fun losing forever
which oil executive should i vote for
Both candidates were pro war. War is the top polluting activity humans do. People chose not to vote last time because we had absolutely miserable candidate choices, an undemocratic primary, and formal war crimes support from our own party. Anyone who wags a finger after that shenanigans and talks about climate in isolation from the rest of it is missing the forest through the trees.
Both parties are also pro record fossil fuel extraction.
How big of a record is each trying to break? Just by a hair? Or trying to break the record for years?
Why do you people always make it out like the democrats are just barely beyond perfect? The reality is they’re abhorrent monsters. Biden didn’t just make it worse by a hair, He made it fucking terrible
So, if anyone was wondering, this- is the bOtH siDEs psyop bullshit that you all hear about.
Pretty much, sadly it describes the majority of Lemmy as a whole given its foundation.
Yes. “Anyone who doesn’t vote for my party is a Russian psyop”
SOUNDS REASONABLE
All of the comments above your stupid one actually list reasons and justifications for people’s decisions.
Care to elaborate? Or are you a Schumer bot? Blue maga? You here to scare people away from the scary working class reps?
is a Russian psyop
Your words, not his. Plenty of troll factories and gullible groups around the world, but the money pours down from where it pours down.
Both sides are not the same, one has been way worse for the environment than the other, the majority of this thread is rife with ignorance, plenty of it wilful. This thread might as well be called a theater.
- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_policy_of_the_first_Trump_administration
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_policy_of_the_second_Trump_administration
You are both-siding this and appealing to perfection as a solution, both common appeals used in manipulation, just like the majority of this theater is doing.
No, and you are ignoring all history and past elections as are all of the other DNC shills.
There has ONLY BEEN PROGRESION TO THE RIGHT. The overtone window has shifted so far to the RIGHT because ymof you centrist fucks and your capitulating to fascists, that yes, both parties are fascist.
Your stupid argument that both parties are not the same is not something people make. If you go to a party and you want a drink, and you can only have coke or a bottle of dasani water, you are drinking a coke product. You do not get a choice eve. Though they are different.
We are at a point where we are literally running against cyberpedophile Nazis that are doing warcrimes, and establishing concentration camps and your “opposition party” is running on “restoring ACA tax credits”
Since Im just a dumb American who doesn’t understand anything, can you please explain to me why the democratic party STRUGGLES to beat what I mentioned above?
Why is their current platform not to “hold immediate trials for treason and warcrimes”, “dismantling concentration camps and locations missing migrants” " delivering free healthcare and education like 85% of Americans want" “taxing billionaires and corporations into submission”, “stopping support for the most hated country and leader in the world, Israel and Netanyahu”
Please explain
What a garbage spew of accusations. This thread is about climate change, and it’s clearly you want to derail with a lot of baggage, which ironically enough, one side is still considerably worse than the other for each and every issue you try to shotgun with. I doubt you are American, and I doubt the why of each needs to be explained in anything other than an theathered echo-chamber.
You are both-siding this and appealing to perfection as a solution, both common appeals used in manipulation, just like the majority of this theater is doing.
Again, and again, and again, and again, and again …
This is exactly why I don’t argue with these kids. It’s a massive waste of time. you’ve far more patience than I have.
I think you’re mistaken in thinking they are a child. I suspect it’s more like 3-5 psychologist sitting in a room thinking up the “perfect” response to drive their narrative.
Dismissal without rebuttal. Got it
The last rebuttal with hard facts and links just made you spew a word salad of gaslighting while ignoring anything you were offered. I don’t have any hope for you, I’m just annotating for other readers caught up in the theater.
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Nah, I don’t debate with dumbasses that say shit like “bLuEmAgA”. It’s beneath me.
War kills people and nobody pollutes less than a dead man 🤷
But do you actually have a source for that? Because agriculture is the largest driver of ecological collapse and I’d be shocked if a handful of aircraft carrier emissions outweighs tons and tons of foods and goods being shipped.
If anyone considers climate to be their highest priority, the choices weren’t even close to comparable. One was milquetoast green half measures that would kick the can a little further and one was nosedive everything off the cliff and irreversibly accelerate the climate catastrophe. If you stayed at home and were fine with the second choice you were flat out lying about your priorities.
The person you are responding to has a history of not knowing shit about what they take about.
Are they responding to you?
Yeah, it’s a good thing both candidates were the same on every single issue, too, so there was literally no difference in picking between the fascist and the non-fascist. Fantastic job recognizing your duty to stick to one single issue where you feel they were the same!
One thing you’ll eventually have to come to terms with is that it’s the government of the USA that is and has always been fascist and that the two parties aren’t going to stop the fascism that they both manage and benefit from. Biden had the Epstein files and did nothing. You think the voters are gonna stop fascism when the candidates are all fascists and fascist defenders?
Same on genocide too, don’t forget!
Oh and immigration!
Loads of new .ml accounts spreading “don’t vote” around, how very unsurprising.
They had to recreate their accounts after Yandex was targeted by Ukraine.
It all makes sense now…
😂🤣😂🤣 thanks for the laugh 😂 that would be the funniest shit if true ha ha
Edit: maybe it Is true 😳
who do you think was non-fascist?
Probably the one that it can be said with certainty wasn’t going to:
- Turn ICE into the gestapo and allow them to round up immigrants without due process, put them in concentration camps, and murder people with impunity.
- Pack the supreme court with fascist friendly “justices” who immediately overturned Roe v. Wade
- Weaponize the Justice department and use it against their political enemies … including attempting to strip a state representative of her citizenship for the crime of daring to oppose them as a non-christian woman of color.
- Weaponize the FCC to control the dissemination of dissent and unflattering truth.
- Do everything in the power to cripple and eliminate essential agencies and services, leading to countless preventable deaths
- Eliminate consumer and worker protections via said defunding/elimination of agencies
- Crow about America’s need for less dependence on other countries for goods that are critical to national security … while eliminating federal programs designed to secure domestic production of those goods.
- Start an unwinnable war, raising the price of oil … and thus the price of everything
- Open, widespread corruption
- Take steps to remove separation of church and state in pursuit of a theocratic government.
- Destroy every ounce of international good will we had, including trade deals
- “Tariff” goods: raising prices drastically and pocketing the proceeds.
- Intentionally create havoc in the national and global economy in pursuit of profit via insider trading and business deals for themselves and their allies.
- Do everything possible to destroy protections for transgender and gender non-conforming people while bragging about “transgenderism isn’t going to be a thing” in the near future.
- Drastically accelerate the scope and power of the surveillance/police state.
- Rule with absolutely zero accountability or consequences.
But hey, it’s not like we’re hearing the exact same “both sides aren’t that different” bullshit that was said in 2008, 2016, and 2020.
Do you notice how many of those hings that establishment Democrats may not have instituted but in no way are they speaking against it or planning to remove them?
They wanted the ICE gestapo to only be 85% fascist, have t said a word about GETTING RID OF CONCENTRATION CAMPS just that they are “inhumane conditions”.
You even complain about “ruling without consequences”, is that the conservative’s fault when your party REFUSES TO PUNISH THEM? the Epstein files showed that both parties partake in all of this, and all of our institutions and agencies allowed it. EVERY DEMOCRAT KNEW and no one ran on ANY of this being their priority and nothing was even leaked for campaigns. What does that tell you?
“Pack the supreme court with fascist friendly “justices” who immediately overturned Roe v. Wade” Yep, they COULD have put in a progressive or “centrist neoliberal” judge but they never did, right? RBG was just too dumb and hard headed to replace with another progressive judge right? Woopsie, the fascists that you are so determined to compromise with lied and fucked us all over anyway. That’s what happens when there is WEAK opposition
The literal plan that these fools can come up with during an existential crisis for our country is:
“Restoring affordable care act tax credits”, “addressing affordability” and “holding the crooks responsible…”
Those are their statements RIGHT NOW
Out of all of the issues you mentioned. They have that weak ass statement, and a shitty 100 day plan that they came up with 30 DAYS before midterms. THEY ARE FASCISTS
you must be talking about de la cruz or Jill Stein or cornel West.
Here’s the rub:
Most of these idiot kids are too young to vote anyway, and the rest are too stupid to recognize their own name on their mailer.
I did vote so this isn’t my personal opinion. I’ve been told many times it’s “voting for the lesser of two evils, they’re both evil and I don’t agree with either.” There’s no real sense of choice. I can see it. It very much feels like that South Park episode where they have to vote for the school mascot. Do you want it to be a Giant Douche or, a Turd Sandwich? And then at the end it was all for nothing because they don’t change their mascot so it was all pointless.
Edit: you guys can call me stupid all you want. It doesn’t change the fact that I’ve heard this from coworkers and family repeatedly. I did vote. In fact, I’ve already voted in my primaries. The question was “why don’t people vote?” I gave the answer of why I personally have been told by people they don’t vote. Not liking my answer doesn’t change the reality of it. I work in blue collar work. It’s a very common view in my area. Or, they are pro Trump.
My personal opinion on why they don’t vote or, don’t vote in favor of things they support, they generally don’t want to take the time to educate themselves. And for others, they don’t want to feel responsible for voting when their candidate turns out to be nothing like they promised.
Hey heads up the “both sides” argument makes anyone who says it sound fantastically silly and at worse stupid.
The question was “why don’t they vote like it?” I answered the question from what I’ve been told by multiple coworkers and family. I didn’t say, “this is my opinion.” In fact, I said this is not my opinion and I did vote. Just because you don’t like the answer, doesn’t mean a lot of people don’t believe that. I think it’s a terrible argument personally however, the question didn’t ask my opinion, it was asking why those people don’t vote like it. I simply shared what has been told directly to me by the people who refuse to vote.
Most people that say both side AND still vote, almost never vote in primaries. Many don’t even know what they are.
Do Democrats run fair primaries?
Do they purposely fund the FASCIST’S campaigns against progressives and leftists in order to scare people into the “more electable candidate to help our slim margin”?
All the DNC bots and shills come out and scream “if you vote for what you want, it’s a vote for TRUMP”
Do they sabotage primaries when actual leftists are on the ballot? what happened with Bernie again? TWICE?
When Kamala was put in as the candidate, did we get primaries? (I will give you hers was a bit of weird situation)
Biden basically skipped a primary for his runs against Trump.
Republicans skipped their primary for Trump.
We have a duopoly
Are you SURE that we get fair primaries?
That’s a valid point too. Most of the people who have given me “both parties suck” as a reason for not voting are not exactly the type of people who care to educate themselves on politics. I used to try to teach them but, I quickly learned they don’t want to know. They just want to complain and do nothing unfortunately.
Speaking of sounding stupid…
at
worseworstFTFY
I strongly disagree. I certainly understand why this idea has risen to the forefront, but I find this mentality to be far more obtuse than attempting to flesh out the nuance of a situation. Assessing both sides of an argument is of utmost importance. Qualifying the pursuit of more accurate information as “stupid” is peak irony.
I know, the internet is full of bots and rabble rousers. No doubt they are directed at divisive issues and engage in “both sides” messaging to cast doubt on popular sentiment and advance some propaganda. This is annoying and a real problem, but the wholesale rejection of valid observation or analysis, with reactive, myopic aphorisms is precisely the type of response that allows propaganda to continue its insidious spread.
An evident tactic of propagandists is to flood the zone with emotional binaries. It seeds chaos, disrupts chain of thought, and invokes group selection posturing. I believe the “smart/dumb” binary to be one of the most powerful, and engaging with it, even if one thinks they are on the right “side”, disrupts and obfuscates the pursuit of truth.
No, it makes them sound informed. Saying that “The one party who keeps openly destroying the environment is sooooo much better than the other party who keeps openly destroying the environment” is what makes anyone who says it sound fantastically silly and at worse stupid.
Wrong
nope
There’s a very good reason for the sentiment and why people feel such a sense of dejection and apathy. Then it gets met with smug ripostes like the “bOtH sIdEs” spongetext shit or plain mockery as if it’s something that just appeared out of nowhere.
It’s just typical Democrat arrogance assuming that they are entitled to peoples votes without having to offer any material change, it also ties into why progressive and leftist candidates have to struggle to break through because they’re fighting their own party first and foremost before they even get to fighting Republicans.
Yeah, I can honestly empathize with the people who believe this. Everything feels exhausting, overwhelming, and like nothing will ever change. Unfortunately for the people of that opinion though, NOT voting will ensure nothing changes. Or rather, that you had no hand in changing anything. Because everything will change eventually for good or bad.
Not even that is true. Women fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Black people fought for the right to vote without voting and they won. Voting doesn’t change anything, it turns out. What changes things is when politicians writ large stand to lose something bigger than their seat, like control over society.
Voting matters. So does fighting for rights. It’s not one or the other.
Can you find where in history people voted themselves out of fascism? I think there was on case in central America but they kicked out because the leader died
Hello three day old account trying to dissuade voter turnout! If progressives and leftists voted in primaries we’d have a progressive leftist Democratic party, but progressives and leftists don’t vote for the most part. But you know that since you’re not here in good faith anyway. The phrase “typical democrat arrogance” gives you away, gotta stop using your fox news terms MAGAt.
Hello three day old account
I’ve been on Lemmy for longer than your account has existed, account age doesn’t mean anything.
trying to dissuade voter turnout
No I’m not. You’re just reading what you want to read.
If progressives and leftists voted in primaries we’d have a progressive leftist Democratic party, but progressives and leftists don’t vote for the most part.
Complete nonsense.
But you know that since you’re not here in good faith anyway.
That’s rich coming from you with this complete stinker of a comment.
The phrase “typical democrat arrogance” gives you away, gotta stop using your fox news terms MAGAt.
lol pure desperation.
Voting for ‘the lesser evil’ is what continues the status quo, it keeps duopolies in power around the world, it definitely isn’t just a usa issue.
If people are willing and capable of seeing the duopoly as one entity, they realise that the duopoly never loses… that doesn’t sound very democratic, because it isn’t, duopolies are a right wing con.
Democracies have better choices, but so many countries just keep voting ‘the lesser evil’, and ‘evil’ in continuously.
Hello brand new account trying to discourage voting!
Why didn’t you just copy/paste your other comment about the age of my account?
I’m clearly not discouraging voting… well at least not for people who can think.
Edible funk and Pratai are the resident DNC bots that harass anyone who points out problems with the democratic party.
The history of the usa points out the problems with both parties. The usa is war on earth.
Voting for some third-party is a vote for Trump, we all know it.
I too have heard that argument but unfortunately those are usually the people who won’t see reason. I rarely try to argue with them unless they express some type of will to learn or seem like they’re questioning their beliefs. Some people just like to complain and refuse to help themselves, sad but true.
The real solution would be having more than 2 parties. I mean, TECHNICALLY we do but not really.
The real solution would be having more than 2 parties. I mean, TECHNICALLY we do but not really.
You are going to have to fundamentally change the way we vote and how we count them. In a single-choice-vote, plurality system it will mathematically trend toward having exactly two viable choices, no matter how many are allowed on the ballot.
Mixed-member proportional would probably work well for the House and Senate, and some judicial/executive positions. Where that’s not tenable (President, Governor, etc.) a Condorcet Method should be employed.
Plenty of Dems run on election reform to enable third party viability. Gotta vote in the primaries.
I believe the system is fundamentally broken but I still participate because you can’t fix it by doing nothing. But yes, my coworkers are not people who’s opinions will be changed by fact and reason. They’re also the same people who say, “facts don’t care about your feelings.” Imagine that. But then they get all bent out of shape about how “no one is doing anything about this!” but then refuse to vote. My guy, you’re not doing anything either!
That’s so defeatist. It makes you feel like you’re smart by saying that and thinking you’re privy to something but it’s just totally passive and does nothing. If all the people who said that actually organized and made a plan, there would be a sizable number of people who could actually make a difference.
Did you even read what I wrote? This is not my opinion, this is what I have been told. I don’t think this is correct and that these people are honestly just being lazy and don’t want to take responsibility for their vote.
No shit, my response was in reference to the people you were referring to. Did you take the “you” part as literal? I was agreeing with you. Take it down a notch with the defensiveness.
if clearly motivated people don’t want to vote for you, it’s not an indication that they should lower their standards, it’s an indication that you should have standards to begin with
it’s cute how liberals here are so resilient to reality. people don’t care for slow, steady, painfully incremental progress (if even that) when every summer is so much hotter than the last one.
There hasn’t even been slow progress for anything but shifting right. We have been losing everything from the new deal.
It’s literally their equivalent of trickle down economics. SOMEDAY IT WILL HAPPEN DESPITE ALL EVIDENCE SHOWING OTHERWISE
Incremental progress is better than actively working to make things worse, but y’know, stick to your guns and help make SURE things get worse. Good job!
i think you misunderstand
i’m not saying people shouldn’t vote (truthfully, i don’t care). i’m saying parties who want votes should have policies worth voting for.
y’all keep talking about how the “let’s not vote for the lesser evil because it’s still evil” voter strategy has lead to terrible results. why not talk about how the “let’s be the lesser evil instead of doing anything good that people would want to support” party strategy has lead to the same terrible results?
The time to make that change is before the general election.
Anytime you’re presented with two choices, take the less bad option. But if that’s the only time you bother to act, or even worse, if you don’t even act THEN to pick the lesser bad option, then you are one less vote against the worse, and therefore by your actions support it. But you already supported it if you weren’t fighting for better options.
“Well, I didn’t pick which restaurant to visit very well, and this restaurant only has moldy fruit or sandwiches made literally from shit. I don’t like either option, so I’m just gonna eat whatever they bring me”. Sure, it’s not a great analogy in the sense that picking a different restaurant is not so easy in the context of politics, but I think it makes the point - always choose the lesser bad option. I’d rather eat the moldy fruit (we’re assuming that we must eat something in this metaphor) than the literal shit. And then work harder to try and prevent us from going to this restaurant next time. But if you are presented with the two bad options and one is worse, not picking an option is fucking stupid.
It blows my mind that these people just won’t even try to understand such a simple concept. Their entitlement, alongside their little purity test cost us not only our democracy, but is RAPIDLY forwarding the environmental damage they pretend to stand against.
It’s mind-numbing dumbassery.
Your point was well said, but it will sadly fall on deaf ears. They don’t want to be told the right way to do things, they want to be told the conveinient way to do things. The way that makes them look good. The way that doesn’t require an effort-
….the way that doesn’t involve sacrifice.
Their entitlement, alongside their little purity test cost us not only our democracy
so, people who aren’t content with atrocious (when, don’t they know that it could be cataclysmic???) are a sizeable enough population that they can sway elections… yet, seemingly, it’s not worth it for democrats to cater to them by not being atrocious? which is it?
you talk of effort and sacrifice. for what? voting? calling people dumbasses on the internet because they checks notes express empathy for those who refuse to settle for eternal mediocrity?
“is it so hard to understand that trump is worse” is it so hard to understand that people who see other people being bombed, forests burning, rights taken away, and their lives getting steadily worse, under liberals and conservatives alike, are not gonna fucking bother at some point? people are not game theory machines, “your life gets worse” vs “your life gets worser”, despite having an obviously correct answer, is not a motivating choice, what a surprise
if you believe in saving democracy so much, demand more out of your elected officials instead of demanding less of people who are tired of suffocating under the boot. but, maybe that requires too much effort, and involves too much sacrifice, idk
You know how you demand more from your elected officials? BY FUCKING VOTING IN THE FUCKING PRIMARIES YOU FUCKING DONKEYS.
Yeah, as a rule, I don’t read the propaganda you people believe in. Your job is to spread your bullshit and move on, my job is to calm it out.
“my job is to calm it out”
Is that your bot programming? That’s your job?
Progressives or others that are critical of the establishment democrats have given you ESSAYS of evidence all throughout here and you just say, “nope, you’re all dumb if you don’t vote for my party”
But I guess that could be indictive a being a bot OR just being an actual establishment democrat
It seems like you actually believe anyone who thought Harris was a bad candidate voted for Rump?
That’s so simpleOr they just didnt vote, yes.
2024 was a colossal failure for months before the election. They gave trump legitimacy by backing down “Sleepy Joe” biden, but didnt do it quick enough to hold a primary.
Democrats are fighting on being “the other guy” but thats not an identity. Theres a reason people love mamdani so much, and its because he has values.
But what if they voted for Harris, while thinking she was a terrible candidate? Did that possibly not occur to you?
Millions didn’t. Did that occur to you?
Of course. That’s why I expected her to loose.
Typical MAGA.
Your inability to make the bare minimum effort necessary to stand in front of fascism seems to have also allowed you to not know or care what the outcome was-
Since you seem to like simplicity so much,…
How about you stop pretending any of this matters to you since you have proven via your conscience choice you made to not bother yourself with it.
Simple as……
What choice did I make?
What minimum effort did I not do?Voting for the candidate that does less harm to the environment.
Maybe not you, but plenty others did. And that is why we got trump.
I think you answered my second question? I’m going to assume you did.
Of course that’s why we got Rump. He got more votes. Harris ran against a convicted felon, fraudster, and rapist. It should have been a cake walk to beat him. It was the Dems campaign to loose. She lost anyway, because she was a bad cantate, and the Dems fucked up massively. You can’t blame the reff (the voters) when one team played so obviously badly.
It’s a two party system and you have three choices.
Vote A
Vote B
Don’t vote.
Not voting is still an action. It means either option is fine, otherwise you would have voted for a specific candidate
But what if they voted for Harris, while thinking she was a terrible candidate? Did that possibly not occur to you?
Then they liked her more than the other options.
I know we’re talking about Americans, but this is a simple enough concept. Even for them.
Yah I kind of thought that was simple enough that nobody would think it was what I was asking about.
The whole idea I apparently need to directly explain is, someone can believe that she was and is a bad candidate, while also voting for her. That we can call out her terrible campaign, and how bad the Democrats are at this game; Wanting and hoping for them to be better. You can support your team, while complaining about how much they suck. Too many here seem to think any criticism of any Democrat is support for Republicans. But that kind of simplistic black and white thinking is what Republicans do. I’d want more for us.
This has been the case since the 1990s, when does it deliver, can you show us?
What have working class people GAINED while settling for the “lesser of two evils”?
Where are the incremental steps to the left that you proclaim exist?
What’s not cute, is how there are people fucking stupid enough to not understand the simple concept that when your opponent is a anti-environmental fascist-
YOU VOTE AGAINST THE ANTI-ENVIRONMENTAL FASCIST.
It can’t get any easier, yet you people STILL don’t seem to understand it. Let me put it another way:
When you have cancer- YOU TAKE THE CHEMO. You live to fight anther day. You don’t say,
“Yeah, no. Chemo sucks. I don’t want to get sick, so, let the cancer take me.” This is PURE ignorance.
Well, if the supposed opposition is anti-environmental fascist-supporters, then they aren’t going to get people out to vote.
Your analogy is severly flawed. The Democrats are less like chemo, and more like alcohol. It makes you feel like the pain is going away, but in the end, it’s only helping the cancer.
Non voters aren’t motivated to vote, they’re non voters, why would anyone cater to a group that intentionally throws away any influence they could have?
Thanks, I’ll go on and implement a policy to destroy the ability to vote for as many people as possible in as many ways as I can come up with, that way they become non-voters and I don’t have to listen to them. Oh wait, that policy is already what’s happening.
Because progressives don’t fucking vote and give power to Republicans by doing so. If you refuse to participate in the system then you don’t get to be upset when the system disregards you.
Over several decades, progressives are told to vote for the lesser evil, they do, and then the lesser evil helps the greater evil silence progressive voices, so that progressives eventually find out they can’t vote anymore.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
Yeah, and not voting will make everything much worse a lot faster.
So please, throw away your vote. The republicans will thank you.
If progressives voted in every election over the last several decades we’d have a progressive democratic party, but progressives mostly don’t vote. You sound like a republican.
I sound like a Republican when saying that the Republican have destroyed voting rights? sure buddy.
You sound like a republican because you were spouting both sides bullshit.
I think things like voter suppression, access to information also weigh a lot heavier than some might think.
I’m also kind of wondering how they came up with this number of 11 million, if people are not politically motivated and activated but are still politically conscious enough to have priorities, there are systemic issues keeping them from voting. And especially at these large numbers, simply saying ‘well they should vote’ and being angry about them supposedly not voting won’t change a damn thing.
We don’t need to yell at people. We need to fucking strategize.
there are systemic issues keeping them from voting.
Yep, starting with the shitty candidates who don’t give a fuck about the environment.
100%. The candidates need to inspire someone to vote as well and most of the goons they have been trotting out recently are more of the same. Just corporate dems looking to cash in.
Well said.
As we all know, if you just keep telling people to vote, eventually they’ll just be like “Yeah! I’m gonna take off work from the job that doesn’t give me time off, go find a polling place, which isn’t close and crowded because the state doesn’t run enough polling places, then try to go there in a town without public transportation! Why didn’t I think of this sooner?” Then they get there and find out that most of the local elections are uncontested and the federal ones have only a choice between no climate policy and climate policy which is insufficient but delays the necessary work until it’s too late. Then after begrudgingly voting, they realize that their districts are so gerrymandered their vote basically didn’t count anyway.
Nope, no need to change anything, we just need to keep telling people to go vote. It hasn’t worked yet, but… uh…
To be clear, this isn’t telling you not to vote. It’s telling you to do more than vote.
climate policy which is insufficient but delays the necessary work until it’s too late
Thats being very generous to the massive fracking bills and military operations (the worlds largest polluter) we see under Biden. Truth is they are both actively harmful. One might be slightly less harmful but they are both stepping heavy on the speeder accelerating us towards climate apocalypse
Because the Democrats also have a terrible climate policy?
But… But… Al Gore?
Wait. They have a policy? Maybe the progressive wing, but that’s too small for an official policy.
They have reasonably positive policy, they just are as usual terrible at explaining activity.
The Biden-era Inflation Reduction Act had quite a bit of green incentives for regular people, and it created widespread solar and non-fossil-fuel home improvements that did (in my area at least) translate to a lot of green tech being installed, not just on-paper policy.
The GOP and Trump especially are irrationally hostile to green tech, and there are plenty of examples why they’re materially worse - paying again just to cancel an already-paid-for wind farm project for example.
So this isn’t really a “both sides suck” problem. One side has a slightly positive policy that could be a lot better. One side is in a psychotic delusional fugue and actively trying to destroy the planet.
Obama literally led the largest expansion of fossil fuel extraction in the history of the US.
So did trump, and then so did Biden, lol.
And yet the USA’s production and consumption based emissions decreased over his tenure. Seems like replacing foreign fuel shipped from across the world with domestic fuel is a climate win, but that doesn’t let you own the libz…
Yes, the majority of emissions reduced during the 8 years under Obama were because fracking drove down the cost of natural gas below the cost of coal. The market drove a reduction in a coal usage in favor of fracked natural gas. But of course, that’s what happens when the only thing you control for is the one variable that makes headlines.
Speaking of which, during the first 4 years of Obama’s fracking boom, no one was measuring the leaks, and leaks from natural gas wells are methane, which traps 8,600% of the energy that CO2 does. They didn’t even start trying to fix this until 2016, and of course those fixes were easily rolled back by Trump, because the Ds can always expand the harm, but they can’t ever seem to contain it.
You mean the same Biden that did more drilling for oil than Trump did? The same Biden that increased funding the the largest non-country polluting organization in the world?
What a hero! 🙄
They were terrible but I’d take a C- over the current F just saying. Not voting won’t make them care more about climate change, hearing it in primaries from engaged voting populace is what dictates policy. It’s why boomers had so much sway because they know they’ll vote.
When you are grading yourself and give yourself a C- and then talk about how thats good enough to get people off their couch in an election, then go ahead and add ‘misunderstanding how to compete in an election’ to your list of problems.
Didn’t say it was good enough. Said it was better, why would moving in the direction I don’t want help, I said both, you seem be saying neither.
Because minor concessions are obvious pandering without real benefit. Give incentives to buy EVs, sure, go for it. But if you expand the military and fossil fuel extraction and then launch wars where you’re dropping bombs all over the world it doesn’t really matter how many tax breaks you give to EV buyers.
As apposed to dropping even more bombs and not being any incentives, and like I said you don’t stop there, that’s the start, you still protest, you still advocate for direct action. One does not proclude the other
Historically, neither party has been a fewer bombs kind of party, and both parties have had their moments of conservation and environmental destruction, and their moments of expanding rights and destroying them.
I do understand the idea of a plurality of strategies. I just think that people need to understand which strategies actually have effects. Allowing people to believe in fairy tales is a recipe for disempowerment. Much like praying for a cancer cure, voting is one of those things that makes you feel better about yourself without actually achieving anything
There are material differences between the parties, pretending their policy is the exact same isn’t enlightenment it’s delusion. People should hold specifically institutional democrats accountable for stifling progress I’m with you there but the only thing not voting ever got us was less time to work with and worse conditions to do it in.
You’re arguing with a russian propaganda bot, their whole account is bad faith shit.
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a subhuman foreigner” and other insane conspiracies for the racist right-wing mind
C- is drastically better than the Dems environmental policies and practices. They were absolutely F
No corporate donors and support dictate policy.
We got public healthcare in Canada through direct political action, respectfully there is room for both strategies.
Maybe if people championed the good Democrats instead of spreading bullshit meant to encourage not voting and votes for Russian assets, Democrats would start getting better overall. Nah we should probably just go full tankie on this shit and pretend to be surprised when that doesn’t help anything.
As an anarchist you people need to stop calling everyone who disagrees with you a “tankie” you’ve made it absolutely meaningless.
If you’re actually an anarchist you’re not even part of the conversation so what the fuck are you doing here? Go do anarchy you fucking larper.
Which of the two pro-corporate neoliberal parties in the US care about the environment again?
because the system is set up not to. it’s not a real democracy.
I mean, they don’t even care enough about their warmongering, lying, felonious child rapist of a president. French students are legit protesting harder than Muricans against their pedophile leader. Make it make sense.
I think a more interesting question would be, regardless of someone’s priorities, why they don’t vote.
I know for a lot of people it’s A. Didn’t feel like their vote mattered, B. None of the candidates matched their desires, I.e. non of the above earned their vote, whether by not lining up on issues, or being perceived to only give stated values lip service, C. Voter suppression, whether that be inability to go vote because work/schedule, voter roll purges, voter eligibility being repressed due to cost of documents, no transportation access to polling place, etc, D. Being too burnt out to even paying attention to politics/voting; or some combination of the above.
Report 1: https://www.uniteamerica.org/articles/report-most-americans-votes-dont-matter-in-deciding-elections
Report 2: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy
The second one is the real whale and is from 2014, so extrapolate how much worse it is now.
Thanks for these great links. Some thought provoking insights.
I’m thankfully not from anywhere near that place, but I always assumed a lot of people there feel that their vote won’t improve their lives… so it remains a duopoly that rarely ever improves their lives.
because climate concerns are not a concern with either party? both sides may not be the same, but they hold the same views on 90% of all things. and more and more that last 10% seems to be things they want but are still ashamed about it.
Yeah but you still gotta vote.
sure that’s why i vote third party, or candidates i know push my interests. I will not vote for establishment democrat.
That’s fine, so long as they won enough support to be the primary challenger against the GOP candidate. Otherwise you’re wasting your vote and helping the Republican win. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and vote for a bad candidate so that the even worse one doesn’t win.
Edit: A lot of people don’t like this comment but none of you are telling me what the alternative is besides not voting (which isn’t happening because I vote in every election and you should too).
This argument is exactly what enables the establishment democrats to maintain their power. It’s a threat they hold over the American people, and the only winning move is to not give in and vote for them. The fascists didn’t come to power because of the last election, they came to power because of the 5 decades of concessions the American people gave to the oligarchs.
Well then what’s the alternative? You can’t just not vote.
Vote third party and, more importantly, organize your community. Get involved, don’t just wait for elections to roll around.
I already explained why voting third party in anything other than a primary is a waste of a vote if they’re not the primary challenger against the GOP candidate. I need a better answer or I’m going to continue voting for the lesser evil.
The problem with this argument is that while it might be objectively correct in the short term it’s also objectively self-destructive in the long term. Both for the voter and the candidate.
Because elections are won by turnout. If you don’t turn out your base you don’t win elections. But your strategy eventually murders your own base. They get dejected, they get disillusioned, they get impatient, whatever you want to call it. And you can’t fucking change that. No amount of argument will ever change that. If you keep serving your voters a turd sandwich it doesn’t matter how many giant douches are on the other side. Eventually they stop coming to eat.
And that’s how you lose really big. Which screws over everybody.
But what’s the alternative? Not voting? I won’t even consider not voting!
The alternative is not running conservative candidates who never do anything for their base. That’s the alternative. You all act like it’s a monolith. That the liberal Democrats have to by some law of nature run these conservative Democrats who never do anything for the people. There’s no law about that. There’s no reason that has to be true. But if they choose to keep doing it they are choosing to lose. Because they’re the only side that are trying to do something that is destined to fail no matter what.
I am not in control of that. The best I can do I sign petitions and vote for the third party when they show up on the ballot in the primaries, and if my candidate doesn’t win then I vote for whoever stands the best chance* against the republican candidate.
You would be correct in an utopian world. There people would vote for who they want instead of who they don’t mind.
But this is reality, and because of the semi-2-party system of the US, voting for any third party is just the same as not voting at all.
If you want to change the system, hold rallies between the elections. But don’t use the elections for that. Or you can be sure you will get an other trump.
And how can your long-term plan work if everything gets fucked up so much short-term, that you will never get to the long term plan in the first place?
You’re the one who’s living in the utopian world. I just told you, you can’t fucking change it. Someone who relies on being the lesser of two evils will always eventually lose massively. That is inescapable. You will subdue your own base every single time. You cannot win without your own base. Trump won because of this. Maybe you’ll beat them this time but six or eight years later he’s going to win again, or whoever the new Trump is. And that’s going to be how it works forever. And every single time it’ll get worse and worse and worse. Your strategy is willfully choosing to lose.
Are voters clustered in the center of the political spectrum like a bell curve or are voters clustered in two camps at the extremes? If it’s the latter, I could see the “don’t vote” strategy working. Otherwise, it’s bound to backfire because the leftmost candidate would need to move so far left to gain your vote that they would cede more voters to the candidate to their immediate right than they gained by moving left and lose the election as a result. They therefore don’t consider you in their choice of policies and move farther right as a result, which seems counterintuitive, but it’s true. This of course assumes a single political axis which isn’t necessarily accurate.
This is literally the opposite of what has been happening. The Dems keep moving right, and giving up voters on the Left. Every election they scream about the Leftists voter base that is both:
- A) To small to cater to
- B) So large, as to be able to swing elections
And their strategy isn’t because they can’t get Leftist voters, it’s because they’d rather let the Republicans win, then enact Leftist policy.
you can argue some perverse version of the prisoners dilemma all you want, but when i said that i will not vote establishment democrat, i mean i. will. not. vote. establishment. democrat.
Great, so you are okay with an other GOP then?
Cause that is what you will definitely get with that mentality.
And you can bet they will call your climate goals woke, and do even less than a democrat would.
no, but like i said. there is nothing on this earth that will change my position. it’s up to the democrats to decide how painful they want the rest of the world to suffer before they are forced into the light kicking and screaming.
you do not get forward momentum by voting the lesser of two evils.
what position do the establishment democrat actually hold that would make the lesser of two evils at all a viable choice? because it sure as shit ain’t climate change, immigration, lgbtq+ protection, reigning in corporations, resisting genocide, universal healthcare, loosening racially motivated drug enforcement, breaking up the prison industrial complex, breaking up the military industrial complex, defunding the police, establishing ranked choice voting, repealing citizens united, making bribery illegal again, nor establishing term limits. so i ask you, what the fuck is left?
“the democrats will hold trump accountable!” big fucking whoop. he will probably die before the end of his fucking term, and if not the only reason the democrats will drag him through a congressional panel (but never prison!) until the day he dies, is so they can do the exact same thing trump does to avoid answering for the epstien files, distract from doing their fucking jobs, and taking corporate bribe money.
i am so fucking tired of this vote blue no matter who bullshit.
Okay then what do you do? Not voting is a waste, and so is voting for the third party that lost the primary. So please, tell me: How should one vote, then? I got a lot of replies but nobody can seem to tell me what the alternative is beyond wasting your vote.
the point being that you can not “waste” your vote. the mindset of your vote being “wasted” is the propaganda from the vote blue no matter who crowd. if everyone voted for the candidate they actually wanted and didn’t worry about being “right”, or on the “winning” side, the world would be a better place. that’s the whole reason i mentioned the prisoners dilemma.
hell, not voting can be a choice and not a surrender to apathy. it’s not your job to sacrifice your morals in order to side with one ass hole over another to take advantage of the office. it’s the dnc’s job to be electable and not field shit stain fucks.
Dude, even with the new DSA Democrats I barely hear anything related to climate. Sometimes the green new deal is mentioned, but the only thing that is supposedly radically transforming the economy is AI, not the Democrats, the leftists or anyone with a voice in US politics. It’s really frustrating.
right? like i said elsewhere what do establishment democrats actually stand for, because it is not the following:
climate change, immigration, lgbtq+ protection, reigning in corporations, resisting genocide, universal healthcare, loosening racially motivated drug enforcement, breaking up the prison industrial complex, breaking up the military industrial complex, defunding the police, establishing ranked choice voting, repealing citizens united, making bribery illegal again, nor establishing term limits.
The median voter theorem suggests that the two candidates will both have policies which reflect the median voter, with one of the candidates slightly left of center, the other slightly right of center. This is a result of the candidates wanting the most votes. If the leftmost candidate were too far left, they would lose. It’s a derivable law of behavior as natural as objects falling in parabolic arcs under the effect of gravity. I mention this because there seems to be a prevailing attitude that politics is all corrupt and if there’s no candidate with radical policies to tackle climate change, then it must be because industry has their hands in politics, and nothing you do can change it, and voting merely endorses the system, etc. That’s true in some ways, but I think it’s also true that politicians reflect what the voters want, and it turns out most people are selfish and don’t give a hoot about the health of the planet or future generations. It’s not you versus the politicians. It’s you versus the people electing the wrong politicians. Participation counts. It moves the median closer to where you want it to be. Voting counts. Participating in other ways counts. Vote and talk to people.
I think it’s also true that politicians reflect what the voters want
Give me a break. From zionism to the environment to any other issues… Politicians reflect what their master, capital, wants.
bullshit. there is no slightly left of center, that “center” line fucking slides forever and exclusively to the right. the only way to stop that is to not give establishment democrats ANY power. it’s more important to change the tempo of the democratic party then to pretend fight the republicans.
The only way to actually win is to vote for a canidate that actually represents the closest to my actual wants. and the establishment democrats have exactly zero actual alignment on my wants. don’t give me their bullshit campaign promises, my memory is longer then three months.
Bold strategy. Let’s see if it works out. I rather think that if you don’t participate, then you’re effectively not included in the set of people whose interests are considered by politicians when they form their campaign promises. When you do this, the median is likely to shift right, not left as you think, if you take a moment to recall the definition of median. Sometimes we are placed in tough positions with few good options but still having to select one.
I would propose that a lot of the cases of Dems appearing to renege on campaign promises are the result of closed door deals with the other factions where they’re forced to make compromises in order to get some of the things they (and you) desire. We’re not privy to those deals because it would reveal to the voters that the politicians abandoned one wish for another and a competitor would use it against them in a primary, and then there would be no deals and Congress would grind to a halting stalemate.
Bold strategy. Let’s see if it works out.
People have been voting Blue No Matter Who for a long time. How has that worked out? All that has done is let the Dems move to the right.
…then you’re effectively not included in the set of people whose interests are considered by politicians when they form their campaign promises.
Thats kinda true. Because the Dems never consider what Leftists think. They’re pretty open that they’d rather let the Republicans win, then let a Leftist have a shot.
I would propose that a lot of the cases of Dems appearing to renege on campaign promises are the result of closed door deals with the other factions…
LoL, they aren’t forced to, they choose to. They’ve had plenty of opportunities to freely move to the left, but keep chosing not to. Hell, they’ve given up elections rather than move to the left.
We’re not privy to those deals because it would reveal to the voters that the politicians abandoned one wish for another and a competitor would use it against them in a primary, and then there would be no deals and Congress would grind to a halting stalemate.
No, we’re not privy to them, because they opnely don’t care about what their voting base wants. They just pretend to during campaign season.
Thats kinda true. Because the Dems never consider what Leftists think. They’re pretty open that they’d rather let the Republicans win, then let a Leftist have a shot.
notably, they dont consider the interests of leftists whether they vote or not
Don’t look at me. I voted for Godzilla
