Its an old LG, but given the recent light on the lengths they’ll go to spy on us, I figured this guy was better off without any ability to even connect wirelessly. Don’t know if the Ethernet still works but I plan on keeping my TVs as dumb as possible, HDMI only.
If you’re wondering how to open lg TVs you just have to remove all the screws then start pulling open at the bottom and open the clips going up. With the TV face down on a soft surface just keep pulling on the back case from the bottom, it’ll take some effort to pop open. The top edge folds open more like a hidge than clips.
I knew a guy years back that would pop open any device with an internet or GPS connection and physically disable it. He was telling us about it at work one day. Most of our coworkers told him it was paranoid overkill. I bet that dude is laughing his ass off right now.
Me being paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t after me.
Nope. It’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you.
Its only paranoia if theyre not out to get you. Otherwise its sparkling anxiety
As far as I’m concerned, smart TVs are not really any different from Superbox/Badbox.
Regarding the specific reason why they are after you. In general you could still be paranoid.
A friend of mine’s household got a smart tv with speech commands. They didn’t really understand why I didn’t like. The kicker? They’re also somewhat paranoid about government and corporate overreach, but not to the extent that they’ll do anything.
The most conspiratorially minded are also the most likely to miss the obvious.
During COVID lockdowns, while I worked retail, a few customers didn’t want to use the QR codes to “check in” to the store because “tracking”, but then used digital contactless payment without a thought.
Do you have a phone? Does it have a hard cutoff for the GPS and mic?
Edit: damn! Y’all are sensitive about your larping.
C’mon, it’s common sense that you should not take your phone on demos and the like.
Oh, I didn’t realize that “going to a friend’s house” was code for “full black ops shit”. If that’s the case, yeah I’d be pretty pissed too if I went over and everyone left their cells behind and the Wi-Fi was turned off and we went into the dampening room and there was a smart TV playing South Park hanging on the wall.
I didn’t pick up that was what was happening at all. Thank you for the heads up.
They can track it with the antennas right? Less accurate but no need for more.
Within 150 - 1,500 feet at absolute best (high density urban environments) and up to a couple of miles out in the sticks. Very different than within a few feet for GPS.
You’re right though, if you want to go completely out of sight, you need a physical disconnect for the cell antenna too, or the battery.
I’m just saying that if you’re worried about your TV listening, you might want to think about the hot mic attached to a pinpoint tracker that you keep in your pocket.
I don’t speak freely near my phone and I have the bare minimum of 1st party apps in it. I was trying to get my PinePhone working, but that didn’t pan out.
Smart. I wish there were options to the spyphones.
It’s really strange though that your friends would be security conscious enough that y’all keep your phones locked away when hanging out, but not conscious enough to opt out of buying the spy TV. I guess with so many attack vectors it’s easy to focus on a few, and forget about the others. Giving us a false sense of security. I’m sure that’s by design.
If they really wanted to, they could determine your travel history using the accelerometer.
Those little accelerometers have drift. It might work for a few miles, but eventually it’s going to be off by a significant margin. Plus, if the entity tracking you has your accelerometer history, you’re already pretty fucked, regardless if they can track it or not.
Also public wifi, ever connected to a major provider of public access? They know who you are now, and they can log the connection attempts your phone ‘helpfully’ makes for you.
It’s not paranoia if you’re right.
"The issue’s not whether you’re paranoid, Lenny. I mean, look at this shit. The issue is whether you’re paranoid enough."
The other day I saw an old comedy and the “crazy” guy was saying that he doesn’t use cellphones (which were new at the time) because the CIA can listen to it.
In the early days of analog cell phones, any teenage punk with access to a Radio Shack and a modicum of soldering skills could listen to your conversations on the things, never mind the CIA.
New conspiracy: Agents of the post office who work for the GOVERNMENT can READ your POSTCARDS.
I could be wrong but I think up to 2G it was basically unencrypted no?
Just like the old people keeping nonsensical passwords all different and written down, when all the database breaches happened.
Paranoid guys don’t laugh. They switch to being paranoid that them being a blindspot will draw attention.
Source: Am that guy.
yup. you gotta keep some nonsense, average data about yourself going (google thinks i’m a radiological oncologist, and i’m a musician. that’s kind of funny and kind of sad) and have your paranoid conversations out in the woods
You can’t hide from an all-seeing entity. You can only appear too insignificant to hold it’s attention.
deleted by creator
It’s still paranoid overkill no? They just want to sell him useless shit lmao
Or is he a black panther on the low?
It literally takes screenshots of what you’re watching (this was known for a while) and listens to your conversations in standby.
The question is - are you happy to keep your door open, invite a stranger to stand in your room whilst you go about your day? If not, why do we allow electronics to do the same?
The concern then is this data is sold and used against you by insurance and so on.
This isn’t a conspiracy, this does happen.I’m happy to have caterers trying to appease my whims. But again, I’m not a criminal, and I am self aware enough to understand that nobody cares about a wage slave to actually be listening in like in your false equivalence of someone standing in my room.
Edit to add : And that’s all pointless opinions because it’s happening either way. Unless we decide to live Amishly.
You are right, it is a false equivalence, the stranger standing there isn’t automatically processing, tagging, then sending off the data to thousands of customers so those customers can increase your prices for things they know you’ll buy anyways, use the data to flood your algorithmic feeds with something that will actually sway your opinions their way… But yeah… You have nothing to hide right?
If they increase their prices they will lose to their competitors? You take all the stuff that supports your argument and just ignore everything else that exists?
They can sway an opinion with or without tracking people, you seem to be taking away peoples autonomy on this point.
You folks aren’t special enough to be this paranoid about targeted ads. That’s what it is, your choice is to give up and live an Amish lifestyle.
And they did a fine job of swaying your opinions for 1000s of years with whatever tech was available at the time. Didn’t they?
If they increase their prices they will lose to their competitors?
What competitors? Shopping is nearly an effective monopoly. People just don’t go elsewhere to check for better prices anymore, amazon is too convenient.
They can sway an opinion with or without tracking people, you seem to be taking away peoples autonomy on this point.
And you seem to be ignoring how predictable the human brain is. There are reasons people consider all these algorithms to be evil, they take advantage of emotional weaknesses to influence people to do things they normally wouldn’t have. Saying it has always been that way doesn’t make this more effective way any less of a problem. With all this personal information being harvested, these companies can ramp up the manipulation and sell it to the highest bidder. That information is something worth hiding so you can still interact with the world and be targeted a bit less.
You folks aren’t special enough to be this paranoid about targeted ads
You dont need to be special lol. They are targeting everyone all at once. I really suggest to read into the situation a bit more as you seem to underestimate the scope of this issue.
Competitors still exist chief, it is not an effective monopoly yet. Though I agree they are always pushing that way. What do you think Ali baba is?
Again, targeted ads aren’t scary to some of us. Idk what to tell you.
You think because I’m not paranoid about a data set that says when I like to buy toilet paper I am not well read on the matter, I’m sorry you feel that way.
Why don’t we pivot and just agree that the flock cameras are exactly what you’re afraid of, but in the hands of local peasant cops who actually want to harass people and should be banned.
Your coworkers still thinks he’s paranoid, because they’ve nothing to hide and therefore don’t care.
“Give me the man and I will give you the case against him” is a quote you might want to look into the history of.
My comment was sarcasm, but I can see how people can misinterpret it.
I apparently read this differently from y’all.
A disturbingly large percentage of the populace does see it this way.
I read it as a sarcastic criticism of such people. Was it not?
I read it as a sarcastic criticism of such people. Was it not?
It absolutely was meant sarcastically, I fucking hate the “hurr durr I’ve got nothing to hide so why should i care”
But I can see how people can misinterpret my comment.
wE oWn ThE gLAsS
I just can’t imagine a jury trial where the TV I bought, have the receipt and possession of, has had its “rights” violated.
Cory Doctorow has imagined it for us:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41085118-unauthorized-bread
I’ll add it to my list!
I own a screwdriver
This is Plan B when you already have an LG product.
Plan A is to not buy LG anything, ever.
PS: Just out of curiosity and based on other people pointing out here and in another post of mine how hard is to get a non-smart TV, I looked around and here is the largest non-smart consumer TV I could find (which is 1080p and 40" from what looks like a Spanish manufacturer, for €209 with VAT), here is a non-smart 65" 4K Samsung hospitality display ($1023 in the US) and here is what looks like the same spec consumer TV from Samsung ($379.99 in the US).
So, sorry, it is in fact possible to not just avoid LG products (which itself would be easy, just buy any other brand out there) but even smart TVs altogether, just either pay more (over 2x as more judging by that Samsung TV) or settle for smaller 1080p TVs from smaller TV makers.
They all do this. Why do you think displays are so cheap? The business plan is not the display, it’s the data.
Here is a Samsung 65" 4K Non-Smart Hospitality Display in the US and here is the closest consumer Samsung TV also in the US.
The former is $1,023.00, the latter is $379.99.
HOWEVER, here is the Samsung commercial smart version of the first TV model.
Notice that it’s actually a bit more expensive at $1080.
Also judging by figures I heard years ago for the cost to buy private information about people (well below $1 per person if I remember it correctly), I suspect Smart TV makers don’t make all that much money from selling private information (especially if you consider that they’re competing with the likes of Google as well as many other companies that also have massive surveillance operations) as a percentage of the total price of the TV.
I suspect that the difference in price between commercial and consumer TVs is mainly due to higher resilience in the device’s design, longer and/or stricter warranties and support availability plus that they simply can extract more money from business customers (an effect you see in A LOT of things, not just this).
I suspect the current situation where non-smart consumer TVs are pretty much non-existent are a mix of big companies pursuing even small increases in profit (from selling private data) so they all inevitably end up doing that same thing that brings them a small additional revenue stream and consumers themselves being convinced that “smart” is a good thing on a TV and actually preferring those over non-smart TVs.
Certainly consumers favoring “smart” TVs would explain why even little no-brand Chinese TV manufacturers who really don’t have the scale and systems for mass-surveillance are selling Smart TVs rather than non-Smart ones outside the cheapest possible TV sizes (you can find monitor-size non-smart TVs)
Well, considering LG’s advertisement data selling makes more money than actually selling TVs with 0 hardware production costs… (According to the GN investigation)
There is a reason that every single company, cars, IoT, fucking washing machines are all moving into the data harvesting and selling business…
I think those figures are quite outdated.
Every smart TV brand is doing this. There is no escape
Don’t get a smart TV, just use an external media player for the “smarts” - easiest is to put LibreELEC in a Pi and get a remoted like this.
Personally last TV I got (5 years ago) I went for something that did not advertise any “smarts” (a Blaupunkt which turned out to have some “smarts” so it has always been disconnected), though if it was nowadays I would probably spend the extra to get a commercial display - a commercial display is not only “smarts” free, it is also designed to last a long time under constant use rather than with built-in obsolescence like consumer products, so it should not need to be replaced for a long time.
I’m lucky that I’ve been an really early adopter of media players (well before Android TV) and quickly figure out that the life-cycle of medial players (i.e. the “smarts” in Smart TVs) is way shorter than the life-cycle of the actual display, mainly because of how often new codecs become widespread (video decoding of 1080p or higher content is only performant if done in hardware or it you throw a ton of general computing power at it), so it’s economically wiser to have those things separate since you’ll replaced the media player hardware much more often than display hardware, all of which is even more so when software updates of closed “smarts” solutions can literally make the device unusable simply by using too much memory, a common built-in obsolescence trick.
PS: I had a look around and above 40" 1080p the only non-smart TVs I found were indeed commercial things like “hospitality displays” and judging by example I checked from Samsung with the same spec, the explicitly “non-smart” “hospitality display” (65", 4K) was a bit over 2x the price of the “smart” consumer version.
So yeah, it’s feasible to avoid smart TVs by going commercial (but costs over 2x) or be limited to the smaller sizes and resolutions, as well as simpler tech of small brands in the low-end of the consumer TV market.
Even commercial displays are scraping data.
Now comes the fun part. Do you know of any good quality “dumb” 4K OLED in the 65” range?
Why would I ever buy a 65" 4K OLED?!
At the optimal viewing distance for a 65" TV (about 2.68m) I already can’t see the pixels of a 1080p screen.
Maybe it would make sense if I had 20/10 vision, but I don’t have such above average vision since I was a kid.
Reason guides my purchase of consumer devices, not hype.
Different strokes. I sit about 9-10 feet from my TV and I can definitely see a difference between 1080p and 4K content. You don’t have to see individual pixels but you can tell there’s a sharpnesss and complexity difference to the images. Not to mention I have yet to see a 1080p HDR screen and i watch content that is Dolby Vision and HDR10+ and you definitely can see a big difference there from SDR content.
So my question still stands, no hype around it.
Don’t take this too badly, but “you can tell there’s a sharpnesss and complexity difference to the images” sounds a lot like the “gold connector digital cables sound better” thing - people subjectivelly perceiving something which they think reflects quality because of expecting it to be better, rather than because it’s actually better (audiophile forums are sometimes hilarious).
Other possibilities are simply that you’re seeing upsized 1080p content on that 4K screen and are confusing upsizer artifacts for actual quality differences (or vice-versa for seing downsized 4K content on a 1080p screen).
Yet other reasons are simply different screen brightness range, dynamic response or refresh rates - for example an OLED panel will general be better in most/all of these than TFT and more expensive TVs (which the 4K ones are) generally come with the former.
There is definitelly a difference between HDR and SDR if you’re watching content with the appropriate color range (an HDR screen can literally display more color information, plus SDR stuff is mapped to a gamma curve to “compress” it whilst HDR is not) and most people can definitelly see it, but the difference between 1080p and 4K is only perceived for certain up-close distances and/or if you have above average eyesight.
I would suggest a blind test at a TV store were you just try and guess which is better without knowing which TVs are 1080p and 4K, but you still have to account for display tech since as I wrote OLEDs generally look better.
And it still doesn’t answer my question. Show me where I can get a dumb 65” OLED capable of HDR. You’ve gone way off of a tangent on something I don’t need convincing of.
some of us are really into home theater. i once had a 75 inch screen. it was FUN. took up half the room. my current 55 inch 1080p is enough screen tho. i want a projector next
Well, ultimatelly it’s a “how much do I care about being surveilled in the comfort of my own home and risk having my network hacked” vs “how much enjoyment do I derive from a a big fat consumer TV”.
Personally “how much enjoyment do I derive from a a big fat consumer TV” is such a low value for me that most other things are more important for me, but I can understand that it’s not the same for others.
i’m just worried they venture into smart projectors next. i just want to paint my wall theater silver and not have to worry about screen resolutions.
Are there any companies that don’t pull shit like this?
None. Ads pay for part of the TV.
Basically everything Sceptre makes — and indeed possibly literally everything — outside of their Android TV line is a dumb TV. They’re carried by Walmart although inevitably not in store, and they’re reasonably cheap.
I wish I could find their European equivalent …
THIS is also not a solution. It is not just LG that does this, they all do.
LG: “Diplomatic immunity!”
Anyone with a screwdriver: " It’s been revoked!"
I think a common problem on Internet posts, is not enough Lethal Weapon 2 references.
Not sure about the older LG models, but in the newer ones, the wifi and bluetooth or on the same board. Cutting off the module means the remote stops working.
Personally, I’ve isolated and blocked the network, factory reset the TV, and set it up to power off when not in use. It only gets content from an ancient AppleTV box.
I paid and own the glass. They can go screw themselves.
Well, the appleTV box likely does similar things, just for apple ad network instead. Which is better than a data broker at least!
Sadly it seems like a Linux SBC (something with the newest encoders like Orange Pi 5 plus & Pro) is the best way to go with Plasma Bigscreen which I think is still in Beta. Plus the SBCs now cost like 150€ instead of 80€ because of stupid corporate AI scam bubble…
Yeah the price jump killed me making a vanilla android tv unit this year. Chromecast is an outright spy but we dance for a little while longer
I also removed the module with both wifi and bt. Atleast my remote still has IR and the only thing that has stopped working is the wiimote like magic mouse. Well, and the mic on the remote which i never used.
I was mostly worried about closing a wireless attack vector to a device which will never get a security update again. The chances are small. But malware spreading over bluetooth doesnt sound impossible or far fetched considering how fucked everything already is.
Just replace the word SMART with SPY and it makes a lot more sense. TVs in particular are one of the few things that have gotten cheaper over time and this is only because of the Automatic Content Recognition systems and the advertising.
My wife, despite me telling her not to, connected our washing machine to Wi-Fi because that’s the only way she could get it to run a custom soak cycle. There was no way I could disconnect it from the Wi-Fi, and it started getting OTA firmware updates. Then it started throwing error codes when I would try to start it. Then one day it was totally dead. It killed the display panel which to replace costs 2/3rd of just buying a new one. Nothing mechanically wrong with it, just the display board that has an ESP-32 in it that got bricked by a firmware update. I went to our local appliance store and just bought a “dumb” washing machine that has actual buttons and no ability to connect to the Internet.
I have actually fully isolated my washing machine from the outside network via pi-hole. I can still start/stop and change cycles on it via WiFi. I also have WireGuard set so I can connect remotely to my local network exactly for such scenarios.
I wonder how much a TV would be if it wasn’t subsidized with the data collection revenue? I remember someone offering a TV free of charge but it had a hardware ad bar mounted to the bottom. I paid $1000 for my 65" S90C when S90Ds were already on sale.
It’s pretty likely that the TV price is not subsidized. They might just want to squeeze as much money out of you as possible.
I looked up some publicly available Vizio (Walmart) financial presentations. For Q3 2024, their “Device” sales lost money (and that’s counting soundbars, which are presumably sold at a profit). They seem to be going all in on whatever cursed thing they call “Platform +”.
Note that this is gross profit, i.e revenue minus cost of goods, but not all the overhead from logistics, retail, corporate, etc.
Isn’t Vizio like the cheapest brand? Or one of them, at least. Some of the most budget oriented brands might take that approach but I don’t see others like Samsung, Sony or LG doing that (at least based on their prices).
I’d take that free TV. I know how to break displays precisely.
Why not just… you know, don’t give it your wifi password.
Hopefully you don’t live near any neighbors or open hotspots.
What of it connects to some other TV or device?
Fuckin tire pressure monitor system surveillance all over again
Wait, what’s that about?
tire pressure monitor systems spy on you. like, i always have a tune in my head. if i told people it was coming out of my teeth i’d sound insane, right? THE TIRE PRESSURE MONITORING SYSTEM IS SPYING ON MY TEETH i think that sounds just crazy enough.
That’s fucked up. Welcome to the future 🥴
But then how will I amuse myself getting in screaming matches with the remote
Some will scan for open wifi networks to connect to that you can’t disable
You missed the 2nd one
I’ve already torn up the floor boards so it has to be in the walls, right?
YESSSSSS!
In the future I will only buy a tv that has a known method of wifi removal. Like this one for example: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/LG+TV+49SJ8000+-+WiFi+module+disassembly/117783
What can the TV do if you simply… never connect it to WiFi?
Serious question, but these don’t have cellular or LoRa modems. Neither can they use Bluetooth w/o an app to use a phone as a router?
They can connect to neighboring LG TVs and open WiFi networks in your area without explicit approval from you. I don’t know about LG in particular, but there have definetly been TVs that do that.
Yeesh! Creative
Yeah, I’m not even that creative and I’d have them talk to printers with open wifis at least. I’m sure someone smarter and eviler than me has devoted real brain power to this
I’ve seen a lot of isps broadcast open wifi from their routers.
Most open Wi-Fi I come across have a “enter your email here. For Free WiFi” form. I assume they could get past this with a simple script but open WiFi is not the same as having the WiFi password.
LG could very easily either automate that form, or have a side deal with the ISP to allow them without an individual authentication.
I sometimes dream of cutting the connections to my microwave’s beeper. “Yes, I know it is done. Shut up. I’m on the toilet.”
Lotta microwaves have a setting to disable the beep. I did that with mine
I checked mine and it didn’t have one. :(
Damn :(
I did that with mine immediately after getting it out of the box. Just desoldered the piezo speaker. It’s glorious. People ask “how do you know when it’s done?” Well, it just doesn’t go BRRRR anymore.
Meanwhile, I’m sacrificing my privacy because the push notification to my phone reminds me I gotta get off the toilet cuz there’s food cooking.
I had only seen one YouTube video talking about the device. WiFi nowadays tracks your every move, everything you do around your house. Now television: I’m shocked. Nowadays, every digital device we use is constantly tracking us and selling our data to big companies…
It’s sad to think that we’re always being watched by all these electronic devices.
