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some context, first of all, the -40% collapse only brought the STAR50 index back to its March 2026 levels.
and the Chinese stock market is heavily moderated by the government which is very different from the US market. if the stock rallies too quickly, the government generally speaking will try to slow it down. Sometimes through explicit policies 1, sometimes through a kind of “scare tactic” 2. Conversely, when the stock drops too sharply, the government also intervenes to prop it up 3. Honestly I feel more countries should do the same.
The Chinese stock market is also much smaller relative to its GDP (101.5%) compared to the US (227%) 4. All this is to say, if you look at China and think, “huh, their AI bubble burst and they still seem to be fine?”, think again. If and when the AI bubble bursts for the US, it’s going to be much much worse.
US markets will halt trading for those same issues.
No! I wanna see CEOs and entire Boards jump out the window like in '29 dammit!
Hmmm. I had not considered that. I probably don’t have enough “celebrate that things got a bit brighter” drinks set aside for that.
'29 is only slightly over 2 years away
Do we have that much time?
Point 3 is the Buffet Index. In 1929 and 2007 it was at 130%. Guess where that extra 100% comes from. AI companies and AI speculation. We are so fucked.
Much less debt and financial “engineering” in China, and much lower borrowing costs.
Cheap GPUs when?
I’m beginning to suspect never. The industry (read nvidia) got taste for selling stuff in bulk to those who don’t care about price and/or quality. They don’t want to return to the world where regular people (ew) were their primary source of income. They will find new scam to use their cards on.
When people give Intel a chance and when other companies start making good GPU’s. I knowo it’s terribly hard but given enough price hikes it WILL be profitable and it will happen.
Never. Western capitalists will make Chinese hardware illegal before they allow cheaper goods to undercut their profits. It’s exactly what they’re doing in the auto industry, why should tech be different?
The only country that might do that is the us. There are many western capitalists happy to buy from a competitive global market.
Already did it with phones.
Probably not any time soon? China’s buying 5090s in bulk to literally remove the chips and transplant them onto server form factor boards for AI.
The stocks crashed because there’s so much competition now and nobody can expect to take the whole market. Deepseek, Qwen, GLM, Kimi are ALL way cheaper than the US counterparts and quite comparable. It’s not exciting anymore. When Deepseek R1 came out, everyone thought that Deepseek was going to completely take everything over. Now pretty much everyone is getting close to Claude in performance.
Won’t happen anytime soon. Even if AI bubble popped today, the companies that remain make AI a household name will still be scooping up chips for decades.
There is still the problem of making money.
CheaPUs
That’s… that’s not how this works. That’s not how any of this works.
Mild discounts, yes. Cheap again? No.
Ill take two cheap gpus please
You can buy a 16gb v100 in a pcie card for under 400usd or just the gpu for 220usd, unfortunately the price jumps 3x minimum if you want a 32gb version
You can buy a 16gb v100
no thanks, I’d prefer a GPU that can actually process graphics AND DISPLAY THEM…
Give it a couple of months and they’ll figure out a way to solder the GPU chipset and VRAM onto a donor board with a modified BIOS.
With any luck, the market will be flooded with these hybrid graphics cards and absolutely crater Nvidia’s revenue & valuation (triggering a similar crash in the US and elsewhere).
with any luck jensen will be dragged through the streets and pelted with rotten fruit
Do these support Optimus to redirect the video output? Could be an option if it’s cheap enough.
nah, I don’t want to eat the leftovers of nvidia’s AI slop machine, I want a gpu that’s for graphics the WAY GOD INTENDED
I guess you could buy a bc250or a gameboy if thats important for you, but i doubt theyll show up as a result of chinas datacenter failing so youll just have to wait even more then
I’d prefer a gpu meant to drive displays because my friends aren’t LLMs and all this absurd garbage has made it impossible to buy 5090s without a mortgage.
I’d wager the people asking for cheap GPUs above want them for the same.
Oh you sweet summer child. Do you actually think the price of GPUs are going to come down?!?
Not until we recover from bailing out the US AI industry, which will probably take at least a few years.
Only if you’re fine with writing your own drivers for Moore’s Threads GPUs…
So China has already gotten ahead of the US on AI…
China is ahead of the US in many things.
Prett sure the comment was sarcastic
China tech stocks are back to March this year, and AI stocks are still almost half their stock index.
So the bubble… Became slightly smaller…
My ideal scenario:
-
The AI bubble lasts a little bit longer, they put data centers in space.
-
The bubble pops immediately after this, all the companies go broke and nobody maintains the satellites.
-
Free PC components rain from the skies, I sit out on the roof surrounded by buckets catching RAM and SSDs.
-
They’re a bit scorched but I’ll take what I can get.
- Data centers in space
- Overheat as there is no way to disperse heat in a vacuum
- AI companies go broke
- Can’t maintain the useless space centers
- They crash and collide starting Kessler Syndrome
- We don’t know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky
Overheat as there is no way to disperse heat in a vacuum
This is incorrect. You cannot do convection heat removal in a vacuum because there’s no air. However, you can still do radiant heat dispersal.
So you dump your heat into something that has a lot of surface area with which to radiate it away from your components.
Space is either very hot or very cold, depending on whether you are in light or shadow. If one side is constantly exposed to light, then there must be radiators on the other side to radiate that heat back off into the cold.
And radiateing heat is the worst way to remove it.
It’s the only way to do it though, so you have no other choice.
Exactly. Look at pictures of the ISS: it has radiators. It has to get rid of its heat, and it works. And those radiators aren’t even as big as the solar panels. The radiators really aren’t the problem.
The problem is scale. The ISS has about enough power for a single server rack. If you want entire datacenters in space, you’re going to need thousands of times the scale of the ISS.
We don’t know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky
That sounds familiar, like a quote from some movie or game. What’s it from?
The Matrix
The Matrix wasn’t a movie, it was a documentary.
A pre documentary
I still want a cell phone like that… and I want payphones back.
That tracks with the context. Thanks!
I actually work in the space industry designing/building/testing satellites.
The answer is big fuggin radiators and perpetual night time sun synchronous orbit while the other vaporware/grifters trying to shill orbital power beaming blast your solar arrays with the power of a thousand suns every now and then.
There is math for it, and I have a fuck load of doubts, but people are funding this bullshit.
Why doe people think data centres in space well work? What so you do with the heat?
Claude, defy physics for me. Make no mistakes
Genius!
-
Was there candy inside?
No, just cockroaches
Was there candy in the cockroaches?
No, just more cockroaches
It’s cockroaches all the way down.
Oh dear. I guess China ain’t what it used to be.
China used to be something?
Lol. This is like British people shitting on America in 1950. You know they’re the new superpower right?
Absolutely! Without China there’s no opioid crisis.
False. The demand has been created. While there is demand, there will be supply, China or no China.
Shh, you’ll ruin the tech CEO’s self delusions. They need that AI to forget about their past boondoggles. Like the metaverse and NFTs.
They need it so they can have reasons they like their own kids
Tim Swiney still haven’t fully given up on those two.
Besides, boondoggle is fun. Some of those patterns are wild af.
Not even people there want to support this cray-cray ai trend no more, they just ahead of the curve huh.
Seems to have more to do with China than AI per-se considering that TSMC, Samsung and SK Hynix are unaffected.
“Ain’t that a shame.”
“You’re the one to blame.”
Reuters blocks my VPN and the Wayback archived version doesn’t display anything.
Gotta be number one in everything /s
That’s not a bubble bursting. It’s not nearly enough fallout. These are the warning signs.
Can we all just agree China and USA bad? I swear lemmy is such a china propaganda machine lately let’s not forget all the horrors of China in the very recent past.
Sure, one country has issues with surveillance and free speech, and the other just started another illegal war of agresssion by triple tapping an elementary school and killing 200 little girls.
They’re both pretty bad.
“has issues” is carrying a lot of weight. We really didn’t know how bad the Nazi concentration camps were until they Allied forced to to them. We really don’t know how bad China or the US are treating their “undesirables.” There’s nothing to gain by taking one side over another. They’re both invaded and/or are planning invasion of their neighbors. They’re both supplying nations committing genocides. They’re both digital surveillance states with propaganda campaigns.
This literally down plays the atrocities committed by America on the daily due to some assumed evil being perpetrated by a country that hasn’t dropped a bomb in 50 years.
Find a better source than your imagination.
Sorry. I didn’t know you where the one person who’s immune to propaganda.
You must be pretty desperate if you moved the goal posts of binary good/evil to whether or not someone dropped bombs.
Not really, murdering civilians is pretty high up on the list of evil shit a country can do.
Like China has been doing that. You keep thinking I’m downplaying the US, but I haven’t defending a single thing the US has done. I’m the one reminding people that a construction company that make crematoriums were on display at the boarder patrol expo.
I just haven’t forgotten Hong Kong, Tibet, Taiwan, when they redrew their territory boarders and claimed a bunch of islands, when they disappeared Naomi Wu for a few months(whatever happened to her girlfriend?), how they’ve outlawed lgbt media, when they sonar pinged Australian divers and cause eyed injuries.
Speaking of getting disappeared, whatever happened to Gedhun Choekyi Nyima?
Completely unserious, lmfao.
Yeah, like China is so cozy and welcoming towards its minority groups. It’s okay to criticise both sides.
It literally is. They have protections baked into the law and were excused from the one child policy, lol.
Yeah okay tell that to the Uyghurs, the poor bastards need a laugh.
You paying for my ticket? Unlike the genocide in Gaza, you and I or any number of international journalists can go check it out for ourselves in Xinjiang, lol.
Well I’ve actually been to China. Worked there for a bit, tho TBF it was a long time ago. I’ve spent time in a bunch of SE Asia countries. Sometimes travelling, usually working my way round and staying in one place long enough to get to know the town, the locals, learn a bit of the language, form friendships, the occasional relationship. Probably only 5 years total in Asia tho, which I’ll admit isn’t enough to be an expert. Did the same in some European countries - mostly Spain and France, tho a brief bit of Italy too. I don’t really have any contacts left in China but I’ve got mates in Thailand I hope to see again, and Vietnam. Also Cambodia, tho that can be a bit sketchy. Mind you, anywhere can be sketchy if you’re more curious than careful. And just to head you off - no, I’m not rich. In fact I’m borderline homeless. All you really need to do is raise the price of the flight, organise visas, try to find a job or a place to stay before you set off. It’s very doable for anyone who wants to try. So, no, I’m not paying for your ticket. Pay your own fuckin way and stop letting your opinions be governed by your lack of experience. You can do this if you put your mind to it, I did, and I’m not the smartest or strongest or whatever. You just have to do it.
Edit - thanks for the meme, that means a lot.
Jesus christ what a waste of time reading this comment.
+Uyghur genocide, +Killing people who’re against the system, …
If what you’re saying were true, they would cancel each other out in a comprison to the US, due to the Gaza genocide and trump deporting or executing dissenters in the street using his secret police.
I have a propostion of an opinion.
US is worst, but china is still very bad.
I’ll let you decice where to place Europe.
They don’t cancel each other. I wouldn’t want to live in either.
I think capitalism is bad because state capitalism (China) or corporate capitalism (USA) both end up being propaganda
I agree with that. Lots of China meat riding here, absolute refusal to acknowledge the problems and deny everything by saying “your source is made up usa propaganda” no matter what source you post. It’s kinda funny cuz trumpers do the same thing (fake news).
Which is wild cuz i was under the impression communism was all about giving and receiving criticism and struggling thru to an answer. But maybe that’s just the authoritarian side of China that crushes any kind of critique.
It depends what branch of lemmy.
.ml is a huge server and home to the developers of lemmy, its explictedly Marxist-Leninist and china sympathic.
There are some servers that defederate .ml but since its suppose to be a general use instance many people are on it without even knowing about the ideology, its a delicate matter.
My advice is to always look the instance of users as context and you will eventualy spot patterns in it.
Exactly, you see someone telling you to vote for a party guilty of genocide, the most serious of crimes, you can bet your ass they’re from .world
That is why i am anarchist and object to the concept of centralized authority.
Hell yeah
I thought libs were all about supporting the lesser evil? Or is it only minorities that you demand be utterly pure?
🎯
Nah, libs are more about calling out evil, greater and lesser both. And minorities aren’t inherently pure, they get called out too if they do heinous shit. It’s not so much about taking a side, more about trying to be a decent human being and encouraging others to do the same. It’s just that the American electoral system requires people to choose between a turd burger or a salad with a shit on the side.
We can choose a salad (or burger) without shit… but not next week at this point. Gotta pick one - or let others pick one for you.
Afterwards, please find your local precinct and be part of the discussion. “Both parties” have been captured by money/capital, but only because we let them. At least on the dem side, the rules we have allow us to outnumber the money, but only if we show up on November 4th.
Edit: Just to be clear - Show up on Nov 3 and vote for your preferred entree of the options available, but show up after too.
The libs that did a genocide and tried to gas light the world into believing it was a war?
Which war was that? And are you sure they were ‘libs’? Because the American democrat party sure ain’t. They’re conservatives.
Nope, they’re definitely liberals, lol. Right leaning liberals but libs none the less.
I guess we have different definitions of ‘liberal’. IMO a right wing liberal is an oxymoron.
Liberals by definition are right wing lol, they put strong emphasis on capitalism and private property. You’re using the American definitions, which have been corrupted to absurdity.
Oh so you have no problem with choosing evil when it comes to American politics?
Where did I say that? I absolutely have a problem with it, this is why the American political system is so fucked. Shouldn’t have to choose between shit and shittier. The fuck happened to ‘the will of the people’?
I assumed that “It’s just that the American electoral system requires people to choose between a turd burger or a salad with a shit on the side” meant that you should choose one or the other, which to me means accepting the lesser evil.
