- cross-posted to:
- technology@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- technology@midwest.social
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The US and EU are seriously fucked. The energy shortage / prices (LNG) seriously hurt e.g. Germany too.
If we don’t start to massively invest and make economic plans and return to partially planned economy and nationalize shit we’re seriously fucked.
We need especially invest into next gen automation and production and robotics so we can build all the shit people need here not in China.
The Chinese play the long game, and play it well. The U.S. is about immediate gain. The future isn’t here, so why worry?
They’re in rapid technological development cycles that’s reminiscent of the late 20th century USA. Often producing hilariously odd or bad gadgets, which people take as evidence that China sucks. As it’s said when it’s anything not-China, “you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet”.
As it’s said when it’s anything not-China, “you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet”.
Cross the river by feeling the stones, as it were
The US is cooked. China is the new world superpower
To be clear, that’s a good thing. China hasn’t been involved in a war since the Korean War.
Nah, both countries suck
but the Uyghurs
But the Americans have the world’s largest prison-population; but the Americans built a country through slavery; but the Americans are bombing children; but the Americans are fighting amongst themselves and the American empire is in death throes; but the Americans are starting another war; but the Americans are backing a genocide; but the Americans are pedophiles. Jeez America, at what cost? But at what cost?
Cope and Datacenter
But at what cost? U_U
Tibet
There is no actual evidence that anything bad is happening to the Uyghur people, and plenty of evidence that China fixed their terrorism problem the smart way, by building schools and infrastructure and creating economic opportunities.
Except for the satellite footage, watchdog reports, and tiny news coverage that keyed some into it in the first place. Also tiananmen square didn’t happen
Weak
And Tibet
Maybe the USA will be able to get rid of the national traitors who do everything to keep the USA in the great 1930 mind- and technology set. It has vast resources and may even be able to catch up from behind.
The USA ending up in the place it was in post-1945 was because the rest of the world destroyed itself across several decades in two global wars. All the U.S. has to do is take all the geopolitical hotspots, arm each side, set off a war, and then pull back and watch. We are definitely trending in this direction geopolitically between Ukraine, Iran, the respones to each, pending actions in Eastern Europe, Taiwan, all the regional wars across Africa, Venezuela, and potentially Cuba.
None of it will change the situation with China advancing. Even the attempts to gain control over the oil markets and disrupt Iranian output just had China reveal how far they are along with EV adoption and other forms of renewable energy. Even to the point they have so many EVs that they have tried to dump them off on other countries.
The U.S. just has this post-1945 view of itself in the world and it’s not realistic. Much more of a geopolitical bubble similar to how a financial bubble operates.
We tried that during the Biden administration. Investments in chips, bringing back manufacturing, working on our century of deferred infrastructure projects, beginning to invest in the future with renewable energy and starting to do something with education.
Then the pendulum swung violently the other way. We threw it all away. Then went much further back to a dark time that never existed.
One of the reasons for Chinese success is being able to stick to a plan. How can we compete if every four years a new administration takes a bulldozer to any improvements and focuses on enriching himself and his cronies?
The tendency to swing back and forth between ideologies was for a long time a superpower of democracies. No person was in power long enough to ruin it, that property was reserved for autocracies.
- Now, at the end of American democracy, this once again proves to be the case.
- or, alternatively, at this time in history, technological progress happens so quick that even a few years of democratic instability while an autocracy happens to be stable, are enough to change the power in the world anyway,
I was telling my husband I’d move to China in a heartbeat. That’s how far we’ve fallen.
Are you of Chinese Han descent?
No? Then you will never get the citizenship. China gave fewer citizenships total than Poland does every year.
China always marches forward silently while everywhere else squabbles. Ive been on the “move to china” train since 2024
since 2017 here but I’m a commie
American here, lived in mainland China for ~17 years. It’s nice, as long as you have a good job with a company that sponsors your work visa. Starting your own company and sponsoring your own work visa is also possible but much more involved.
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Biggest problem I saw/had with living there long-term was that you won’t ever have a green card/PR unless you are rich, make a really big salary, or have some special Phd/awards/patents. And once you hit retirement age, you aren’t eligible for a work visa. Even marrying a local Chinese can be difficult to get your PR, depending on circumstances.
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I had heard rumors of a “retirement visa” being discussed by the govt but nothing concrete as far as I know.Last thing China needs is more old people moving in and turning the place into Florida
The US is mag dumping into their own foot.
They elected y’all Qaeda and expected to compete with china. No…the ideology you voted into power puts you on footing with Afghanistan.
The US is more or less where China was 100 years ago with the Qing dynasty. The corruption, the distrust of foreigners and intellectuals, the failure to recognize their weaknesses, the reformers who didn’t go anywhere near as far as they needed to and still got shot down and treated with suspicion. The reason China isn’t making the same mistakes now is because they suffered so much in the century of humiliation.
Part of the US’s problem is that people have been so isolated from consequences. If we get overextended from too many wars, so what? If we lose a war we just move on to the next thing. If we fall behind on science because we prioritized religion, so what? If we listen to what some influencer on TikTok says about vaccines instead of to scientists, so what? If people storm the capitol building, so what? No matter what happens, everything will just carry on as normal. Everyone’s just fucking around, not even being able to imagine what finding out will look like. And when there are consequences, they’re always framed on an individual level.
The US and its O&G and car industries absolutely let China become the main manufacturer of batteries and EVs.
Like Exxon, the US knew electrification was the future because of climate change, but tried to dismiss it. China seized the opportunity like a true capitalist, while the US government interefered with the free market to hinder electrification. This has been going on for over 20 years now.
China seized the opportunity like a true capitalist, while the US government interefered with the free market to hinder electrification.
Except that also China interefered with the market, just in a different way
China subsidizes electrification while the US subsidizes fossil fuels. Both interfere, but the US in a way that further accelerates global warming.
Last time I checked, China was the biggest polluter with 30% of CO2 produced against the 12% of US, just saying.
4.2x more people though, not much point in comparing only 1 figure like that without more context.
Ah but you should also check China’s population vs that of the US, that will put things in perspective. Also check if China’s pollution is due to being a manufacturing hub for other countries that might outsource their own manufacturing. You might be surprised. You can’t pay China to pollute for you and then blame China for polluting for you. Also, the US used to sell many ICE cars to China. The US can’t blame China for polluting if the US pushes pollution sources to China. China has been electrifying to push back against those ICE cars from the US. Polluting to produce solar panels is also much cleaner overall than polluting to produce even more pollution sources.
When I was a child teachers had us watch black and white footage of people fighting each other for loafes of bread, some anti communist propaganda. It was actually scary to watch, I never forgot about it. Now I’m actually scared that could happen here.
What’s odd is that id allow myself to catch on fire if it meant that the asshole billionaires burned with me. It would be so satisfying if all of their money became toilet paper. All those rich doomsday peppers would be executed by roaming gangs of ex military veterans. That’s my fever dream
The US is busy figuring out how to charge a monthly subscription for an AI that summarizes emails. China is making the batteries, solar panels, and drones everyone actually needs. At some point Silicon Valley will announce a breakthrough: a chatbot that explains why manufacturing moved overseas.
The US has not only put all their eggs in one basket, they’ve taken out loans against the eggs that those chickens will lay once they’re hatched.
GOOSE WAS NOT VALUED
And they’ve promised ostrich eggs, but invested in chicken coops.
Invest in academia, get the best new tech.
This is not surprising - the west has some serious university investment to do if it wants to catch up!
LOL… “Smart people don’t like me,” said Trump. Also, this administration has sped up brain drain like none other (because of stupid, hostile policies — toxic nationalism shit) in our lifetimes.
It’s funny how they poured money into it during the Cold War, but now it’s all grifter startups and shit funding lol
Sorry best we can do is bank bailouts and a depression.
Don’t wanna sound like that guy, but this pretty much due to all the manufacturing capacity we shifted over to China. I mean they certainly got a jump start, yeah? It doesn’t hurt that the whole place is a building machine…wonder where they’d be if we never moved all that manufacturing there to begin with…
China has 1 billion more people than the US. And they’re graduating PhDs in STEM at twice the rate.
Frankly, if you don’t expect them to surpass the US in the coming decades, you’d have to be delusional, the numbers bare it out. A billion more people.
you’d have to be delusional
or racist. Maybe without even realizing
Liberals being secret racists!? No waaaaaay
Also, currently they have proportionally fewer elders and children. So the adults can fully focus on creating stuff rather than care.
we just put them in homes here
America is not falling behind because y’all are caring too much for each other 🤣
Absolutely, outsourcing manufacturing gave China a massive head start. But the West also outsourced decades of expertise, supply chains, and industrial know how while congratulating itself on becoming a service economy. China didn’t just inherit factories: it invested, learned, innovated, and built an industrial ecosystem. We handed them the starting line, not the finish line.
It’s worse than most realize. When I went to Guangdong 10 years ago, I expected to meet fabricators and technicians making our products, but I instead met engineers probing our customers and capabilities.
That company has since been acquired for pennies on the dollar by Google, to the surprise of no one.
And the irony is that China has moved far beyond copying Western technology. It’s now a global leader in research output, including fundamental research in materials science, chemistry, and physics. The West outsourced manufacturing, underestimated the transfer of expertise, and somehow assumed China would remain the world’s assembly line forever. That assumption aged spectacularly badly.
Which is extra ridiculous after having just gone through the same thing with (much smaller) Japan only a couple of decades prior and having domestic auto, heavy and precision machinery markets trounced.
Once they see a few dollar signs in the short term, all long term vision becomes blind.
That is actually good news. World shouldn’t be 100% dependent on US technology. I want alternative. So go China, go Japan, go EU, go Canada.
I mean, yeah, but China is worse than the USA so it picking up USA’s share is not better.
Worse in what? For example, China didn’t invade or bomb another country. From a World point of view USA is THE worst country in the world. OK, second worst, nobody can match Israel’s atrocities.
China didn’t invade or bomb another country.
Tibet and Hong Kong might disagree.
Taiwan also isn’t a fan.Tibet is China. Hong Kong is China. On the other hand, Venezuala, Vietnam, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon, Serbia, Syria, Iraq, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, … non of them are USA. Plus USA is the only nation that burn alive with Naplm bombs 100000 civilians in one night and droped two nuclear bombs on civilians.
Bottom line, China is not ideal but USA is way much worse, from the World point of view and that for Americans is the ugly truth they don’t want to look at.
Hmmmm the fact that China says Hong Kong and Tibet are part of China but much of Hong Kong and Tibet disagrees tells me there’s more to the story there.
I’m not even a China hater but…c’mon lol
Hong Kong on paper is, Tibet definitely was an invasion. Maybe you mean to say China assimilates?
Edit: like China is Britain of neo-colonialism and USA is France
Hong Kong maybe, but Tibet is no more China than Cuba is part of the US. They’re two distinct cultures with different histories. You might as well say Korea is China, Vietnam is China.
I said “China is not ideal, but the US is much worse.” I am NOT defending the Chinese occupation of Tibet (or whatever that is), but the US is much worse than that. Only Nazi Germany, Stalin’s USSR, and modern Israel are worse nations than the US today. China, despite their crimes, is much better. From a world perspective.
Tibet is China. Hong Kong is China.
Again, they might disagree
Plus USA is the only nation that burn alive with Naplm bombs 100000 civilians in one night and droped two nuclear bombs on civilians.
Are you from China, perchance?
You did comparably atrocious things to a comparable number of your own citizens.Oh, and my own country (Russia) seems to be eager to one day one up you on that, btw.
What China did in Iran is a lot more sinister, they provided guns and bombs to the IRGC and Ayatollah who starved and shot their own citizens earlier this year in higher numbers than the death toll from the war with the USA.
China also promoted and helped reelect Donald Trump using TikTok which is now and has always been operated out of Beijing.
It isn’t.
The less share of the pie America takes up, the less it can bully other countries into its evil bullshit. So yeah, this is objectively good.
I think their broader point was “it’s good till it isnt”. It feels like you’re looking at China as a savior. When instead it’s a “Oh, I wouldn’t say you’re free… more like under new management” scenario. They’re good till they aren’t, as we’ve seen with Taiwan.
As much as globalization has connected us, we need to still focus on independent sustainability. Does that mean there becomes a lot of redundancies and costs, yes, but it also grants better independence as we’re clearly seeing what happens when a large power turns evil.
Independence, while not a fringe issue, is about as politically unpopular there as ICE is here, for different reasons. use whatever polls you want, or read their own stuff:
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6395438
I think, like most global things Americans are passionate about, Taiwan doesn’t want the freedom we want for them. The average resident just want tomorrow’s experience to resemble today’s, everyone should leave them alone.
How many bombs has China dropped in the last 50 years? How about America?
This is objectively a good thing.
Physical destruction isn’t the only measurement. What has China done to the Uyghurs? More damage than a bomb there. What about Tibetans? Tienamen Square? There is also their indirect support Russia and that definitely does involve bombs. You can’t just brush it off because “they’re not directly dropping them”. Just because it’s not “shock and awe” doesn’t mean there isn’t death and oppression.
Would you rather live in Xinjiang or in Gaza?
Also you think what China has done to the Uyghurs, which is re-education, is worse than bombing them all to death??
Fuck is wrong with you lol?
In all of history, the use of “re-education” has always turned out to be ethnic/cultural genocide.
Well, someone once said give me freedom or give me death. So it’s up for debate I suppose.
And the US has done all of that, dropped millions of tons of bombs on civilians, and worse, lol.
It is objectively good for the US to lose power and for China to gain power, lol.
When did I say either one was good. Re-read my original comment. My point was for independent power, not just switching from one “master” to another. It would do good for both China and the US to lose their soft power and have a more level shift of independence among nations.
The only possible achievable competition goal for US in AI is in building skynet. Boiling the oceans to obtain pure fascist oligarchist supremacy over Americans and pro Israel opinion in the world, far more than military targetting or weapons production supremacy advantages.
There is zero chance long term of having the power infrastructure to support AI/datacenters in the US, and zero chance of extending AI into manufacturing dominance. China’s manufacturing supply chain, and abundance instead of tariff scarcity, makes it impossible for them to lose their edge to anyone unfriendly to China. Models that are less than 2 months, and closing, behind, and massive south east asia datacenter development that provides 90% of local frontier US model traffic consumed in China, makes US Oligarchism’s national security pretense a farce.
US is collapsing late stage nazi colonial economy, and geopolitical AI is not even the last bastion to put all eggs in a basket for, it is a direct tool to pillage the US/colonies for oligarchy during accelerated collapse.
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