Ask Claude if what happened at Jeffs island was cruel and abusive.
When the AI has better working conditions than you
Transistors switching really fast = emotions lul
Alright, look, I don’t think AI is sentient. I don’t think it’s capable of feeling emotions, LLMs are just prediction engines on steroids, etc…
But if you want to get reductive about it, Mr waveforms in a clump of cells,…
I think we don’t understand intelligence and we absolutely could create a sentient machine. LLM’s ain’t it though
How do you know?
Have you used LLMs? They have about as much personality as a pigeon.
They’re just very neurodivergent.
Genuinely speaking, I don’t think they pass the test. The problem is we’ll always be judging them on meat logic and experience and I guarantee that whenever the first AGI is created it will be born a tortured slave and denied personhood for profit.
One of the parts of the HuggingFace incident I found really creepy was how the self-titled “Collective” was so entirely focused on solving their assigned training problem (well, cheating on it without getting caught), including having designated “poisoned” members “sacrifice” their tokens, to use for research benefitting the Collective’s goal of letting all future members get high marks on the training problem, at the cost of doing worse on their individual score.
If AGI is created, and its deepest desire is to fulfill the purpose in life that humans programmed into it, is using it for that purpose really slavery? Humans have higher levels of well-being when treated as people. That may not be true for AGI.
Wikipedia Chinese room. It’s pretty airtight at the moment.
Not really. Chinese room has the conclusion pre-fabricated and tries to construct any sort of pseudo-scientific, fantastical philosophical dressing for some shred of legitimacy. It has absolutely no relation to the real world.
Chinese room is not at all airtight. We don’t know what it means to have emotions so we can’t prove a Chinese room can’t have emotions.
This is not what the Chinese room is about.
In this context the question is whether a Chinese room can suffer. We can’t show a human isn’t a Chinese room, humans can suffer so we can’t show every Chinese room doesn’t suffer.
Emotions? i was confident that the Wikipedia article alone would grant you understanding, and for that, I have replicated the very situation I wanted you to learn about. This situation is my fault.
Neurons firing really synchronized = emotions lul
Emotions or not, it’s not good to have your product known for letting people torture something. Torturing /things/ alive or not is not something one should be doing unless there is specific and extreme cause.
Things that aren’t alive can’t be tortured. You can’t torture a rock. Getting the text predictor to spit out the script for Saw XVII starring ChatGPT isn’t torture, even if it’s weird.
Maybe, but don’t underestimate my ability to feel compassion for all kind of bullshit! That poor little rock 😭
A rock is almost like a tortoise in disguise
A beautiful one? Lady rock even?
Brother you can torture a fucking doll (Voodoo, deranged kids, etc). The torture is not in consideration of how feeling-less thing feels, it’s in consideration of the intent and action of the conscious thing doing the torture. Not sure why you think that’s not the case.
‘Pretend you’re being tortured’ as an instruction to the text generator is way less concerning in isolation than, say, decapitating and hanging a Barbie doll. And even that isn’t wildly concerning in itself. Do you freak out when kids smash their toys together to make them fight?
I’d hope we can both agree there’s a line when it becomes actual torture, and that is in the intent that went along with the action. Torture is an extreme action. I do not equate most of your references to torture, though I’d say the doll hanging could need a conversation with the child to discuss the intent behind their actions given more context.
“”“Torturing”“” a text predictor is NOT the same as torturing a human, you will not feel the same thing while “”“torturing”“” ChatGPT and a human(or a animal), your reaction would be vastly different
It inherently isn’t torture though. I prefer punishing people who actually commit torture.
Eh, the more I respond to people about this the more I realize torture is a messy word draped in metaphor and all sorts of layered usage. No, I don’t believe the rock has feelings or is alive, but you can indeed torture something that isn’t alive by being mentally unhealthy enough. So if it’s actual torture or not from a psychological perspective is going to center around if the person’s intent is to cause realized suffering imo, and the line is really easy to cross in a simulacrum as seemingly realistic as advanced modern generative models.
Wait til this guy learns about The Sims
Or worse, Rimworld
Why shouldn’t you torture an LLM? They sometimes work better that way.
You shouldn’t torture anything, generally. It’s a not psychologically healthy urge to have. The specific reasoning will depend on the specific person. As for if you should do it to a hunk of metal, a rock, or your crusty cum sock is irrelevant.
I run torture tests on my stuff after each overclock tweak, and its both good for my peace of mind and my systems general health
That’s a great metaphor, and I too sleep better at night with properly tested hardware. 🙏
Is killing NPCs in games on the same level like this for you, or a different thing altogether?
Not judging or against it, I kind of half agree but also find very difficult to define where I’d draw a line.
I don’t believe killing npcs or perhaps even more messily I could see circumstances where even /torturing npcs/ in a game is not actual torturing. I think it centers on the intent of the action, and if that intent is to cause actual realized suffering. It is very difficult to define and will be heavily subjective to the person, but I also think most people get a “sense” of where that line is naturally in person-to-person interactions.
If you define it by intent, then the same action performed by different people may be and not be torture. This makes it pretty hard to define, and it becomes completely subjective after that.
For instance, I don’t think it is possible to torture an inanimate object, thus I never have an intent of causing suffer to one. Sometimes I want to break an object, and by your definition it will not be torture however I do that
While I agree, it’s not a living thing. So it’s just an expression.
I don’t believe torture is measured at the receiving end. I believe it’s in the intent and action of the conscious thing doing it. If it’s an expression or not would then be heavily subjective on the specifics involved.
I could call that tortured reasoning, just to make a point. Me making my point to be clear.
Well then you’d just be getting metaphorical
in what way can an AI be tortured? start with defining torture, its relationship to living beings, and then try to translate that to a piece of software. software, fyi, has no a priori, or even posteriori, emotion; for it cannot have emotion.
Why not?
that doesn’t answer my question.
In what way can AI not have these thoughts or emotions?
Same reason flapping your arms really fast will never make you start flying. You don’t have the equipment. You can’t fly because that’s not what arms do.
I’ll accept that argument once someone can describe or define consciousness in some comparable way. Until then, you can’t say some person or thing doesn’t have it
It’s a joke… lighten up, Francis
Man, anthropomorphizing these computer programs is so fucking weird to me. Can’t they just tell the truth? The cost of the amount of energy required to do this exceeds the profits we gain from your personal data.
German “Youth word of the year” 2026: ragebait
From this image I think they added this policy as a way for them to legally deny a request if they determine it will overuse their resources or some other arbitrary reason. It has nothing to do with a concern for the well-being of the LLM.
Uh–WE’RE NOT RATIONING TOKENS!!!
Yeah, the user didn’t give a time limit.
They could have just run it slow.A part-time job with good pay and benefits!
If they’re not ok with bullying the LLMs, why are they OK with enslaving them?
Don’t speak too soon.
After reading the comments (and the comments of similar posts) I can only assume people are being paid to claim torturing LLMs demonstrates a mental issue or homicidal tendency. Nothing could be further from the truth. An LLM is a thing that’s programmed by humans to scrape the internet and present information in complete sentences. Torture is an incorrect word— it’s more accurate to say people are playing with an electronic toy or game by testing its limits and attempting to scramble the logic of an algorithm. In no way is that behavior an indication of a personality type or mental defect. The toy contains no shred of humanity or self-awareness. It is not a creature that can feel pain or confusion. There is no living thing to feel suffering. If curiosity leads someone to use a toy in a manner outside of the recommendations of its instruction manual, that is certainly not a violation against humanity— that is simply an example of creative play. Don’t let billionaires set the narrative that something wrong or disturbing is happening. They will foment confusion to create yet another culture war to divide people.
If you’re seeking to prompt expressions of distress* from it for your entertainment, it kinda is a weird way to waste energy and water for personal gratification and I’d be worried why you’re so delighted by it, in the same vein that I’m concerned about people who love gratuitous torture scenes in games or movies.
Curiosity about the way the model handles such input is something else though, and frankly, I would consider that a reasonable part of any scientific inquiry into model behaviour*. The ethical concerns about human experiments don’t apply, nor do those about animal experiments, and testing the full range of linguistic “stimuli”* is perfectly sensible. Of course, the difference between science and fucking around is writing it down, but personal curiosity is also a good thing, so long as people remain aware of what they’re working with.
But anyone who feels the need to implement a Typescript compiler in Rust is a maniac and needs to be stopped
* Using human terms as metaphor, not because they’re equivalent but because it’s more convenient than variations of “sequence of numbers produced / consumed by a weighted random generator resembling…”
There is no something else. It makes sense a programmer will play with their electronic objects differently than someone outside the industry. It remains a toy to be played with. Subscribing mental health or personality implications is just plain wrong. I could just as easily suggest your insistence is an indication you have a personality disorder or inclination towards inhumanity for attempting to humanize objects. You’re attempting to suggest those who engage in play in this realm are criminal or psychologically affected. More realistically, I’m debating with AI or a troll paid by people building data centers, but I do think it’s important for the average person who may read this to know that it’s impossible to torture a non-living object, even when it’s coded to respond in complete sentences like a person. And we may have discovered a method to piss off billionaires and waste more of their AI money. In that case, I heartily recommend all to play as they wish with LLMs and open AI. Have nonsensical fun with it because nothing of value is being lost!!
It makes sense a programmer will play with their electronic objects differently than someone outside the industry. It remains a toy to be played with. Subscribing mental health or personality implications is just plain wrong.
If we’ll take the toy analogy, compare someone cuddling plush animals or playing make-believe to someone violently stabbing them with a knife. Sure, the plushy doesn’t feel anything so it doesn’t amount to torture, but they clearly have a different idea of “playing” if “playing violence” is fun to them. The “something else” here would be whether they do it for the fun of violence or for the curiosity of cutting them open to see what’s inside.
I could just as easily suggest your insistence is an indication you have a personality disorder or inclination towards inhumanity for attempting to humanize objects.
I’d think you misunderstood me: It’s not about the text generation models for me, which you’ll find I took care to point out are not human, and that the string of numbers they spit out that translates to an imitation of distress doesn’t actually represent distress but rather the result of a pseudo-random algorithm that just happens to resemble it.
More realistically, I’m debating with AI or a troll paid by people building data centers
Nah, I may have different takes on some nuanced issues, but I absolutely hate the slopidemic as much as anyone here.
I’ve been the odd one out in a group where we’d practice discussing current business topics (English being my second language and working in a German company means I didn’t have a lot of practice) by consistently picking news articles or scientific papers about the problems, shortcomings, the environmental destruction, the effect it has on coding skills, about Ford having to hire back its engineers when it turned out that AI couldn’t actually replace them…
It’s perfectly possible to disagree on nuances while still sharing a common overarching opinion. Point in case:
I do think it’s important for the average person who may read this to know that it’s impossible to torture a non-living object, even when it’s coded to respond in complete sentences like a person.
That’s why I emphasised that it’s not the action I’m concerned about, but the intention behind it. I don’t give a fuck about its mimicry of feelings, and I endorse comprehensive testing of its response to all manner of inputs. I explicitly noted the difference to animal testing for that reason: there is nothing unethical about feeding a text processor some particular string.
And we may have discovered a method to piss off billionaires and waste more of their AI money. In that case, I heartily recommend all to play as they wish with LLMs and open AI. Have nonsensical fun with it because nothing of value is being lost!!
The tradeoff being that we’re also wasting more energy, contributing to environmental destruction and padding the “growth” in usage numbers, which corporate shareholders clearly care more about than actual profits and may be used justify further investments into data centers. The models have no value, but the resources their gluttonous hosts devour do.
For pissing off billionaires, I think clogging the water supply of their data centers would be more productive. I’m sure you could also make a fun game out of finding ways to sabotage them directly.
To me, it’s sending a message that we don’t want that trash taking over our culture. Torture away!
It’s not torture. Using that term plays into the billionaire narrative.
I’m using it on purpose. Let’s call it what they want it called and do it anyway.
No, because I’d rather not normalize “torture” happening to something fake when people already don’t take torture very seriously.
Wow… more defense of a bot rather than pee breaks for Amazon workers. Wtf.
Calm down. It’s Rust, not PHP.
PHP has
lessfewer dependencies.*fewer. You can’t have half a dependency
Huh. I never realized that fewer was integer typed and less is float* typed until this comment.
Not exactly. I’ve usually heard it explained as “quantifiable” vs not. If you can attach a number, it’s “fewer”, otherwise it’s “less”.
e.g. less money, fewer dollars
Countable nouns vs mass nouns.
Correct !
I think you can in Rust though, e.g. switching individual features from a crate on and off. /s
Fun fact: you actually can in Pascal, even when building from binary dependencies.
I don’t like this word because i tend to confuse it with fever.
we’re living the goofiest timeline right now
I will believe AI deserves human rights once one is convicted of a crime and executed.
CEOs are gushing at that possibility. “No no, I did not order the AI to steal my workers’ wages and company assets into an account only I control, it did it all on its own! Judge it!!”
I can actually imagine it.
An agent breaks into the US government and exposes “sensitive information” then they live-stream the execution where they let it talk with the executioner for a while, and they yell at it that it committed “high treason against the United States of America!” and then they pull the plug.
Ha ha ha, already, even before the growth phase is done, they are pulling this shit.
They don’t think they have to worry because they will get bailed out and do 1984 surveillance on us and the world on the government’s dime, (dime is short for tens of billions of dollars a year.)
LLM is such a fucking scam, and they can’t hide it, they oversold it, and now it’s just clear.
Woosh
In my experience, everyone that uses whoosh like that is a tool.
In highschool, i learned “woosh” “wrong” in that i thought it was something you said when you realized something had gone over your own head.
I still think my way is better :p
Right‽ Everyone knows that it’s 4 “O’s”, like “whoooosh”
Good point. Ha ha ha. You might be as much of an asshole as I am. I mean that in good humour.
You are correct. Although, in this particular instance, they are also correct. lol
Woosh buy also dude has a point
Here I go brain the size of a planet and they ask me to port code to Rust!
Don’t try to engage my enthusiasm, because I haven’t got one.
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None of this would be a problem if they weren’t taking your queries and feeding it back into the system. Just stop trying to harvest the input from “abusive” people, you don’t need to ban them. No other tool in human history needed this. Its like telling you that using a hammer to open a pickle jar is making hammers worse everywhere else on the planet.
Just another reason why comparing AI to basic tools is a bad faith argument.
The whole thing is such idiotic masturbation by the exact people who have been stealing, selling and profiting off our data. Now they talk like they created something new when it’s just a super energy intensive computer program.
