“As I lifted the gun to show her I suddenly heard a loud bang,” Kris allegedly said. “I did not understand what had happened. Lucy immediately fell.”
Bullshit. This means he took a loaded gun, failed to clear it, put the barrel in the direction of a person, and pulled the trigger. Guns don’t just “go off”. All while having admitted to relapsing on alcohol. I count four mistakes there, where any one of them not having been made would have prevented this incident.
It’s almost like you’d have to intend to make that series of mistakes.
Lets break it down… (mostly for the non-americans who aren’t used to guns)
Gun was loaded. You shouldn’t be storing a loaded weapon. So he either loaded it there or is an irresponsible gun owner.
Gun was pointed at a person. Never point a gun (loaded or not) at anything you don’t intend to shoot.
His finger was on the trigger. No trigger discipline at all. Index finger should be planted on the frame while doing literally ANYTHING other than meaning to pull the trigger.
This is the basics… Anyone who’s taken any gun safety course would know, any responsible gun owner would know and religiously follow…
You forgot keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire, but yeah the thing about weapons safety rules is you have to fail all of them in order to shoot someone. He had intent in my mind.
I don’t see where it says what kind of gun. It could have been a revolver. But at that point does it really matter anymore? So many “mistakes” were already made.
So, fun fact: Alexander Hamilton may have killed himself.
He supplied the dueling pistols for the duel with Burr, and a few things about them.
He had them custom made with a larger, more deadly bore.
He had modified the trigger to require a much lighter pull than most pistols would have required.
The musical (of incredibly dubious historical value) even makes note of this, he was seen fiddling with the trigger prior to the duel, and selected his pistol first.
Accounts on Hamilton firing in to the air differ, but what is consistent are accounts of Burr seeming pretty shocked when his gun went off. Accounts also pretty universally indicate that he tried to rush to Hamilton after he’d been shot to lend aid before being escorted away.
Anyway, that’s not at all meant to refute your claim. Guns generally don’t just “go off”.
Firstmost, curse your lady and the Americas you claim.
Westside on our steeds, come equipped with game.
Ye claim to be a player, but I rode your wife.
We disdain the English, Royalty fucked for life.
Credit: The Right Honorable Tupac Shakur, Earl of the West
The only scenario where a gun just “goes off” would be if it were sitting somewhere untouched and and went off. If someone is holding it then they are solely responsible for what happens with it.
The only scenario where a gun just “goes off” would be if it were sitting somewhere untouched
That’s not what we’re talking about at all.
People drop guns. People do stupid shit with guns, like using the butt as a hammer. People try to show off with pistol twirls and quick-draws. People just handle them wrong - tossing them, sitting on them, holstering them incorrectly, fiddling with them nervously.
These are talking about fundamentally different things than guns just going off, people generally use that term to talk about stuff like the p320, not people being idiots and causing negligent discharges.
people generally use that term to talk about stuff like the p320, not people being idiots and causing negligent discharges.
I’ll point you back to Burress, whose case was regularly and repeatedly described as such. Nobody was accusing Burress of shooting himself in the leg on purpose, much less as some kind of political act.
Laws have been passed to shield gun manufacturers from liability for faulty products.
Still, this case sounded like premeditated murder more than anything else. And that Texas grand jury, and prosecutor, were fine with it because the daughter hated Trump.
they have to be mishandled, uncleaned, and not properly stored
I don’t see any evidence to suggest the guy was maintaining any of his kit properly.
guns generally don’t just “go off”
They can and do when mishandled, which is why gun safety exists to begin with.
“Don’t point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot” is Rule 1 for a reason. And if he was playing with the gun like a toy, it’s very easy to believe he fumbled it. The stories of children setting off guns by playing with them are more numerous than you can count.
Not sure what the downvoters are thinking. I was reading through this whole argument about whether or not guns can just “go off” and kept thinking a) obviously there are cases where people fire a gun they are handling unintentionally, whether because they are idiots or the gun malfunctioned. But b) it doesn’t make a difference in whether he was negligent because he already was when he pointed it at her in the first place. That’s all that should have been needed to get a negligent manslaughter charge to stick, accidental discharge or not, it hit her because he was pointing the gun at her.
Though I don’t buy it was accidental at all, given the circumstances. Heated argument about Trump just before she’s supposed to leave but first he needs to show her his gun that just happens to accidentally fire while he was pointing it at her?
Jury nullification goes both ways and that grand jury just condoned the murder of someone who opposed Trump.
Its mostly semantics. Dude is saying guns don’t just go off because of X, Y, and Z. And people are pointing out that X, Y, and Z are the result of negligence.
People neglecting gun safety is the cause. The gun goes off because of the negligence.
If I remember from reading about this when it happened, he’s also the only witness. The only other person that could confirm this was an accident is fucking dead. So they just believe him? The fuck?
Bullshit. This means he took a loaded gun, failed to clear it, put the barrel in the direction of a person, and pulled the trigger. Guns don’t just “go off”. All while having admitted to relapsing on alcohol. I count four mistakes there, where any one of them not having been made would have prevented this incident.
It’s almost like you’d have to intend to make that series of mistakes.
Lets break it down… (mostly for the non-americans who aren’t used to guns)
This is the basics… Anyone who’s taken any gun safety course would know, any responsible gun owner would know and religiously follow…
“Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.”
Apparently, he was willing. /srs
You forgot keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire, but yeah the thing about weapons safety rules is you have to fail all of them in order to shoot someone. He had intent in my mind.
A lot of modern handguns guns don’t have safeties, to the point I often don’t even see that included as a rule anymore.
But yeah, even if there wasn’t intent, the recklessness is enough to get him on manslaughter at the very least.
You have to violate multiple basic safety rules for this to even be possible
I don’t see where it says what kind of gun. It could have been a revolver. But at that point does it really matter anymore? So many “mistakes” were already made.
So, fun fact: Alexander Hamilton may have killed himself.
He supplied the dueling pistols for the duel with Burr, and a few things about them.
He had them custom made with a larger, more deadly bore.
He had modified the trigger to require a much lighter pull than most pistols would have required.
The musical (of incredibly dubious historical value) even makes note of this, he was seen fiddling with the trigger prior to the duel, and selected his pistol first.
Accounts on Hamilton firing in to the air differ, but what is consistent are accounts of Burr seeming pretty shocked when his gun went off. Accounts also pretty universally indicate that he tried to rush to Hamilton after he’d been shot to lend aid before being escorted away.
Anyway, that’s not at all meant to refute your claim. Guns generally don’t just “go off”.
Are you implying that the nation was not formed on the back of a rap battle my good sir?
Firstmost, curse your lady and the Americas you claim.
Westside on our steeds, come equipped with game.
Ye claim to be a player, but I rode your wife.
We disdain the English, Royalty fucked for life.
Credit: The Right Honorable Tupac Shakur, Earl of the West
If by rap battle you mean drunken aristocrats buying up presses so they could insult each other in papers? Then indeed we were!
They can and do. There’s chapter and verse on gun safety - handling, cleaning, storage - to deal with the risk of accidental discharge.
If you treat a gun like a toy (and this guy’s testimony certainly sounds like he did), it’s very possible to fire it by accident.
No the fuck they don’t.
The only scenario where a gun just “goes off” would be if it were sitting somewhere untouched and and went off. If someone is holding it then they are solely responsible for what happens with it.
That’s not what we’re talking about at all.
People drop guns. People do stupid shit with guns, like using the butt as a hammer. People try to show off with pistol twirls and quick-draws. People just handle them wrong - tossing them, sitting on them, holstering them incorrectly, fiddling with them nervously.
Plaxico Burress very famously shot himself in the thigh, because he decided to keep a Glock tucked into the waste band of his pants. Nothing about the story suggests it was intentional.
That’s got nothing to do with whether it was accidental.
These are talking about fundamentally different things than guns just going off, people generally use that term to talk about stuff like the p320, not people being idiots and causing negligent discharges.
I’ll point you back to Burress, whose case was regularly and repeatedly described as such. Nobody was accusing Burress of shooting himself in the leg on purpose, much less as some kind of political act.
That’s not the gun just going off, it went off because the trigger was pulled due to not being in a holster.
Anyways, we’re just arguing the semantics of uncommanded discharges vs accidental discharges
Right, they have to be mishandled, uncleaned, and not properly stored, so like they said, guns generally don’t just “go off”.
Some guns are just built like shit.
Laws have been passed to shield gun manufacturers from liability for faulty products.
Still, this case sounded like premeditated murder more than anything else. And that Texas grand jury, and prosecutor, were fine with it because the daughter hated Trump.
I don’t see any evidence to suggest the guy was maintaining any of his kit properly.
They can and do when mishandled, which is why gun safety exists to begin with.
“Don’t point a gun at anything you don’t intend to shoot” is Rule 1 for a reason. And if he was playing with the gun like a toy, it’s very easy to believe he fumbled it. The stories of children setting off guns by playing with them are more numerous than you can count.
Not sure what the downvoters are thinking. I was reading through this whole argument about whether or not guns can just “go off” and kept thinking a) obviously there are cases where people fire a gun they are handling unintentionally, whether because they are idiots or the gun malfunctioned. But b) it doesn’t make a difference in whether he was negligent because he already was when he pointed it at her in the first place. That’s all that should have been needed to get a negligent manslaughter charge to stick, accidental discharge or not, it hit her because he was pointing the gun at her.
Though I don’t buy it was accidental at all, given the circumstances. Heated argument about Trump just before she’s supposed to leave but first he needs to show her his gun that just happens to accidentally fire while he was pointing it at her?
Jury nullification goes both ways and that grand jury just condoned the murder of someone who opposed Trump.
Its mostly semantics. Dude is saying guns don’t just go off because of X, Y, and Z. And people are pointing out that X, Y, and Z are the result of negligence.
People neglecting gun safety is the cause. The gun goes off because of the negligence.
If I remember from reading about this when it happened, he’s also the only witness. The only other person that could confirm this was an accident is fucking dead. So they just believe him? The fuck?