That isn’t directly an autistic trait, is it? Isn’t that just empathy, or a conscience?
Do not attribute to malice that which can be adequately described through ignorance.
Also, VPN’s are like a condom for the internet. Quit blocking them.
The older the get the more I hate this quote.
Some people are just both.
Well, one is evil on purpose and one is evil as a by product. The fact that it’s evil was not the question. That went without saying.
No, both malicious and ignorant.
A large majority of everyday cruelty occurs because capitalism, a system based on exploitation, encourages it. Being greedy, cruel and self-centered is the most assured path to accruing fat stacks of cash. And once people take that path to get rich, they use their wealth to propagandize everyone else into thinking it’s actually moral to be solely concerned with yourself, which leads to all kinds of everyday cruelty.
Causality is still a thing so there is a reason but it’s probably not going to be surface level or honestly worthwhile enough to understand. Some people are sociopaths, psychopaths, narcissists, some were abused, some were never taught empathy and compassion or developed it themselves for whatever reason, the list goes on and on.
I experienced the cruelty and bullying so much that I started to think every comment was.
I still think a lot were. But going past school kids now I am double the age on my way to work and still hearing some similar things, I think some of them might just be stupid.
A recent one was “your wheel is going round!”… I am on a bike. Wtf does that even mean? Like… That is how bikes work?
But I am in my early 30s now and the kid was probably 14. It doesn’t feel quite like the same bullying I felt at school. There was definitely directed bullying too. Like being called gay, virgin, loser… But the dumber comments by other people, I don’t know what to make of that now.
A recent one was “your wheel is going round!”… I am on a bike. Wtf does that even mean? Like… That is how bikes work?
That’s the prank.
The idea is that they “warn” you of something completely normal (like your wheel being round) and say it with a concerned tone (like how they’d say “hey your tyre is flat!”) so that you’d naturally stop your bike to check, making you look like a fool for stopping to check that your wheel is round.
Really? I just looked at him like he was a complete moron
Yeah, my brain can’t fathom how one cannot distinguish between “your” and “you’re”.
🤣
My brain just autocorrects wherever I read either
I’m feeling that RIGHT NOW!
My family is on vacation with my mother-in-law (MIL) and my nieces from out of the country. The original plan was for them to spend a week with us, and then stay with my MIL and her husband (J for JERK) in Florida to visit Disney World. MIL is the neices grandma
Well… MIL fell and BROKE BOTH of her ARMS!!
She cannot move her arms so requires 24/7 care which my partner is providing.
On a call MIL had with J, they’re discussing how the new plans are for them all to stay up here with us longer and will only spend a few days in Florida. J says to send them down now and that he’s fine to handle it (this guy has ZERO empathy).
MIL says “but they’ll want to go shopping”.
J: “How hard is that, I drop them off and then pick them back up when they say they’re done. Oldest niece is 22, she can probably drive herself”. She’s from Europe and doesn’t drive.
MIL: “What about Disney world?”
J: “Well that’s not happening now.”
MIL: “WHat?!”
J: “Well the deal was that you and I would see a presentation and we would get free tickets. Since you’re not coming now, I have to cancel”
This guy is a multi-millionaire but is so beyond stingy he will STEAL FOOD from hotels that he’s not even staying at.
And then when J tells MIL he’s going to keep his plans to leave the state in a couple weeks, MIL starts begging J that he cancel his trip because MIL needs him to take care of her saying she’s ALWAYS there for him, and J needs to be for her now. With tears in her eyes begging J, he says “Nope. I’m leaving the state like I planned to attend a GOLF OUTING and give a speech at a funeral for a friend”.
Fucking vile bastard of a rancid maggot-riddled trash bag! I cannot fathom how someone can be so evil.
Multimillionaire, no empathy, story checks out. There are a lot of trauma backgrounds and cognitive disorders that create people with little to no empathy. Even more unfortunately if they become successful they will tend to view their condition as a benefit. It’s usually not until they’re old and alone where they begin to notice being disagreeable to others was a bad move.
I would rather be poor and loved by many than rich and alone.
Although either would be an improvement.
Sadism.
Yeah.
Hard to get ones head around.
Ultimately it’s a kind of stupidity or foolishness.
The psychology of narcissism (and “cluster b” / dark triad / dark tetrad, etc), should be a class availed and encouraged for all neurodivergent people. … All people really. But especially us.
I understand it very well, and despise it. I think sadists should be isolated to rule other sadists, so they can make an example of themselves.
I dunno. I think there is usually a reason, it’s just usually not you :) Not many are born selfishly evil, they’re thrust into it.
Some arguments could me made that if they lean into it they’re more evil… In the end, I feel bad for them, but I’m also not going to give them an inch because of it.
I accept that I can’t understand everything all the time, especially other people and there’s actually nothing autistic about that. However there ALWAYS a reason, and it almost always has nothing to do with me. No one does things “for no reason”. They weren’t cruel for no reason, hurt people hurt people, I don’t condone it but I’m also not going to try to reverse engineer someone else’s mind because it’s impossible, idk what trauma they’ve experienced or the context of their current lives and my time here is valuable, I’m not going to waste it on someone who’s been cruel to me.
I used to fall into this trap until I realized it’s a fools errand and my autistic brain thinks running fool’s errands is illogical.
One can be simply be cruel due to thoughtlessness. This is arguably still a reason, but there’s no intent to do something harmful.
I don’t think this excuses it, but there’s also not really anything to “reverse engineer” in the thoughts behind it.
This happens for dumb too lol
A) people on the spectrum can be cruel “for no reason”
B) “no reason” actually means “a reason I don’t consider as valid” not that I am saying that cruelty is justified, just that people will have their reasons, even if they are simple as “i was bored”
C) NT people don’t instantly accept cruelty as normal and go theough the same “why did this happen” experience
Yeah this infantilization is not helping anything.
yeah there are evil asshole autistic people. no group is absent some evil pieces of shit. idk how they got that way but i know if they do have a sense of justice they only apply it to themselves.
I actually wonder if it’s easier for certain ND people to act in a way that night appear “evil” when really they’re missing emotional context and just maximising some technical thing they’re fixated on. Thinking of technocrats, consultants, techbros, and other minmaxers that will enact brutal efficiencies and be confused when people are upset with them idk
I have this very loose hypothesis based entirely on armchair diagnosing people at a distance that some people I label as fascists (while still being fascists) are ND folks who “just don’t get it” when it comes to people wanting “woke” things like community, diversity, reciprocity, squishy complicated relationships, bustling markets, and fifteen minute cities.
They’re more comfortable with clearly defined relationships based on power and transactional exchanges.
My opinion is also based on the fact that I’m like that, but spending enough time in tech made me realise I didn’t like the company. That is it’s better to suffer through the squishy stuff than seek comfort in a harder view of the world.
/ramble ramble ramble
I’ve found a working hypothesis that seems mostly true.
“No-one is the villain of their own story.”
If someone seems to be doing something evil for no reason, you likely don’t understand their reasoning. It might not be a good reason, from my perspective, but they will have a reason. Once you can figure out where your values differ, it often becomes obvious why they are acting that way.
Yeah once you dispel the idea of the soul you have to admit that if you were in anyone else’s position, like with their same upbringing and everything, that you would act exactly as they did.
The soul likely doesn’t exist (outside our nervous system), with predetermination holding. At the same time, the lie of self determination is an extremely useful one, but as an individual, and as a society.
At the same time, the lie of self determination is an extremely useful one, but [sic?] as an individual, and as a society.
Do you mean both? to both individuals and societies?
I’m not sure I agree. I think much cruelty and misunderstanding is justified by the idea that someone could have chosen a different life.
I definitely think people can change for the better and we should encourage that, but I wonder if putting that all on them is even useful. To some it is, I’m sure, but …
I dunno the thought is still cooking.
Ah, well, except for pathological issues like narcissists and psychopaths for example. There are quite a few people who do evil things and state that they do it because it’s their right and privilege to do so.
But still, those are exceptions to the rule.
They might see themselves as privileged, but rarely as the villain. Narcissists see themselves as the hero, through a VERY distorted lens. Sociopaths don’t get the empathy feedback making them the villain.
It’s a good way to get a handle on their minds. How would it have to be twisted to make it seem either a non-issue or good.
E.g. the rich see money as closer to a score in a computer game. Blue shelling your brother in Mario Kart, just before the finish doesn’t make you a villain. Similarly taking $50 dollars/month more from 10,000 families doesn’t look bad. That’s barely a trip to the pub! (The low income households involved would disagree massively).
I disagree, blueshelling your brother, makes you a monster.
Only if you’re sure they wouldn’t happily send a shell your way, were the situation reversed. That is a rare situation.
Narcissists see themselves as great and glorious, but they don’t have to be good per se. Anyhow, nevermind discussing literally sick people 😁
That’s basically what I mean. They don’t see themselves as weak and helpless. They are the powerful hero main character. It might be an anti hero, but rarely a villain.
Very few people see themselves in a massively negative light (and function well). If your understanding of their motives requires themselves to be weak or evil, it’s likely got serious flaws.
It really sucks to be an Autist. We often see us very negative due to the (unearned) negative feedback loop mostly stemming from misunderstandings.
Sorry for the derail.
As a fellow autistic, I fully feel you.
If it helps, I treat it like dancing. The moves don’t make logical sense, but if you deviate too far, people get upset.
Also, counterintuitively, being both unapologetic and positive gets remarkably good results. NTs instinctively follow the group mindset. We struggle. If we set the default, they will often sync to us, particularly if it’s a positive vibe. Also, NTs are very good at spotting mismatches. If you almost got, but not quite, you trigger uncanny valley effects. If you don’t try and hide (all) your weirdness, they are often a lot more accepting. They don’t pick up “lying creepy” vibes, with no context. It doesn’t work with everyone, but it’s become my default interaction mode.
I had a lengthy answer here, but being around NT with NT expectations sucks, as you know.
My wife cheated on me.
She said she was terribly sorry and wanted to work to save the marriage. We went to individual counseling and then tried couples counseling. She derailed that session by lying almost right off the bat.
She promised nothing would ever happen again, but never took any steps to rebuild trust, other than to say, “Trust me Bro.”
Fast forward 2 kids and 15+ years. She cheated again and has twisted everything around to be my fault. She made me the villain, so she doesn’t have too feel guilty. But then she really believes her bullshit. Says she wants to try and work it out, but then refuses transparency and digs her heels in when I mention couples counseling.
This sucks. She has said some shit that totally took me by surprise. Like, how could she possibly believe the things she was saying. But she did it.
So now, I am 50 years old, have a 12 and 14 year old, and have to re-figure out my life.
I was so dumbfounded when she said the things she did. Like it broke my brain it was such bullshit.
Of course, she’s not toxic, I am the one with all the issues.
My sympathies. I wish you strength in this sudden change in your life! 💜🫂
Saying this sucks doesn’t do it justice. I hope you end up on the other side of this better than you are now.
Hey I believe in you man. Shit like this can be hard in the moment, but youve still got yourself and your kids. There will be some hard days, but you can do it. As long as there’s life there’s hope and you’re still here.
And your wife has this same view of the situation where she’s not the problem.
Damn that sucks man. I’m sorry that happened to you. Just a reminder that your feelings are valid. You’ll be OK at some point but it’s absolutely normal to not be OK now.
None of that was about her reason. How did she make it your fault?
If that’s just an excuse, a post-hoc justification, what do you think is the real reason?
Women filter things through their emotions and feelings.
As such, if their emotions and feelings don’t sit right, the truth must be wrong and needs to be changed to fit their feelings.
You then become the villain if you continue to debate from a position of factual truth and evidence, because that violates her internal narrative. And she becomes angry because she thinks that if only you cared about how she felt, you would change your facts to better fit her feelings.
So obviously, you are the toxic and evil one.
No amount of facts, logic, reason, or rationality can touch even the most reasonable of women to the same degree it can convince an average man. And I am saying this as a married man. I have learned this by painful experience.
The only way to ever debate or negotiate with a woman is to reframe her emotions and feelings such that facts and evidence just happen align with it; trying to argue from a position of pure facts and evidence in order to demonstrate the correct choice leads to a near-100% failure rate if her feelings do not agree.
Sure, there are some men who completely ignore facts and evidence, but that arises out of conservative/right-wing ideology - typically Christian-based - which invariably requires the rejection of reality in order to even exist. And there are also men who are led around by their noses by their own emotions and behave like women, but - again - it is an external imposition on them by way of them having been forcibly denied a father figure to learn from when they were younger. So they copied the adult women around them, instead.
Do you enjoy being alone?
Women filter things through their emotions and feelings.
Everyone does this. Everyone. If you’re about to say you don’t, you’re lying to yourself. Humans are emotional beings we interpret things emotionally.
I won’t bother responding to the rest because it’s the world view of someone blinded by their own bitterness and anger.
Do you enjoy being alone?
Except that I am not alone. As I mentioned, I am married. 30 years with the same woman as of this year.
What I wrote is direct, real-world experience dealing with many different women in many different capacities over the decades.
Everyone does this. Everyone. If you’re about to say you don’t, you’re lying to yourself.
Try being autistic. There are variants that experience almost no ego to speak of, where reactions are facts first regardless of how the person feels about something.
Plus, mature men have learned that operating through emotion is a negative-sum game to themselves, and that the best tactic to dealing with anything that affects them personally is via facts, evidence, logic, and reason. That involving emotions at any initial stage causes significant societal backlash because a man demonstrating any significant emotions, especially vulnerable ones, is seen as a weak and unreliable man that cannot be trusted to support others.
I won’t bother responding to the rest because it’s the world view of someone blinded by their own bitterness and anger.
Ah, nice combination of sour grapes and an ad hominem. Not exactly the most original path, seeing as how often it’s used to shame men into silence, but it’s invariably the only tool left to those who have no possible counter-argument.
Ok boomer
Ok boomer
A decade too young for that.
But at least I have eyes to see, ears to hear, and a thinking mind to process real-world evidence and facts. I’m not blinkered by ideological ignorance.
And a second ad hominem, too. You want to go three-for-three, or have you demonstrated sufficient intellectual bankruptcy for now?
It’s your vibe, sweaty. You chronological age doesn’t matter.
I’m not blinkered by ideological ignorance.
He says, unable to see beyond his own ideology.
Women filter things through their emotions and feelings.
Uh, that’s everyone. Its very unusual to not be doing that, and it takes a lot of practice and patience to hold space for your emotions to pass and to understand how they affect your reasonability and to compensate for that in your judgements.
Like for example, after reading this opening sentence of your comment, it is difficult for me to not disqualify the rest of what you are saying as ignorant before I actually read it. I have to observe my emotion and then take a read after that feeling begins to ebb.
And so after pausing and reading the rest of your comment, I see you as someone who rationalizes their feelings to frame a narrative.
Womanish, as referred, in your world view. Hypocritical and lacking self-awareness.
And among psychologists, what I have said is well-established. In particular, you might want to review a very metaphor-filled but absolutely accurate description of the differences between men’s and women’s brains.
Notice the reference to emotions? Women run on them. In men, it’s incidental. It can be there, but we are punished very readily by society if it’s front-and-centre in the same way.
When someone says ‘OK boomer’; they are referring to your behaviour and the clear limitations that are being demonstrated in thinking, and the experiential gatekeeping of what is ‘right’. The confidence of ignorance. This drawing upon ‘evidence’ over at YouTube to defend that ignorance and support your bias…
This is why it is correct when u/Glytch uses it here, regardless of your physical age.
I’m fairly sure Bibi knows he is a monster.
They might, but is more likely their balance of what is important is shifted. Screwing over NPCs is not massively evil activity. Particularly if they assume they are just doing the same.
Counterpoint: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oIWJxGx1DBY
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There’s always a reason, it’s just not always a satisfying explanation
