• FosterMolasses@leminal.space
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    4 months ago

    I’ve said time and time again that “building more houses” is not the solution.

    The problem is resource hoarding. Regulate the real estate monopolies. Stricter bans on AirBnBs and second vacation homes. Rent control properties. And renovate buildings that aren’t up to code.

    Outside of extremely dense cities, it’s never, ever been a population issue. It’s a class issue.

    • titanicx@lemmy.zip
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      4 months ago

      It’s also the huge amount of housing that’s built that’s not affordable. We have had 5 neighborhoods built within 4 miles of my house over the past 5 years. Nothing is below 500k starting price.

      • devedeset@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        The alternative is that nothing gets built and people compete for the existing stock which drives up prices anyway

      • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        that’s because you can’t build homes for cheaper than that.

        developers aren’t going to charge 300K for a home that cost them 400K to build

        • titanicx@lemmy.zip
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          4 months ago

          They actually can build homes cheaper than that, there’s a certain price point where they feel they’re making the kind of profit they want which is basically the cost of a older home profit-wise. There’s a recent article that came out that I’m can’t find right now but I read it just a couple months ago that talked about the 400 to $500,000 price range is the profit margin that builders want to make. That means they’re probably making 20 to 30% profit. And while they can build cheaper homes they make less profit so they are not motivated to.

          • incompetent@programming.dev
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            4 months ago

            I know it’s not going to happen under this regime but it seems like the solution is to offer tax breaks, subsidies, or whatever we think might give the developers some incentive to build lower income housing.

          • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            OK. you go develop those homes then.

            since you’re such an expert and seem to think a 10% margin is totally worthwhile?

            • titanicx@lemmy.zip
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              4 months ago

              I run a company, and it often is. Think about it this way. If you sell a 250k home,10% would be 25k. A developer often sells an entire neighborhood, so let’s say conservatively 30 homes. That’s 750,000$. If that’s not enough profit to keep building, well, you now know the problem with our society.

    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Building more housing is the solution, even if those homes largely go to the upper middle class and wealthy. Building new homes primarily for well off people isn’t a historic anomaly, it’s the norm. If you’re already building a house, it doesn’t take that much more to add some luxury features to make it appeal to the high end of the market. This is how it’s always been. Historically, the affordable housing of today is the luxury housing of yesterday.

      Preventing new home construction doesn’t prevent neighborhoods from gentrifying. You just end up with yuppies living in newly renovated former tenements.

      • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        seriously. poor people don’t buy new homes. rich people do. i grew up poor. every house we lived in was 30+ years old. poor people buy homes that are old.

        the issue is there are no more old homes anymore because we don’t build enough new homes. so now rich people buy old homes and push our the poor people who can’t afford any home.

        people like me, making 150K and now going into poor communities and buying up the homes for ourselves because we can’t afford anything newer. all the old homes in the richer towns are crazy expensive, and the new ones are 2x the cost of the old ones.

        new constructed home in my city is about 2-3million. a 50 year old house is like 1-1.5 million. a newly constructed home in a poor shit down is 500K. a old home in a shit town is like 350K. I can afford a 350K house. i can’t afford one that’s 500K or more.

        people move to wear they can afford homes.

    • Raiderkev@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I’ve said the same thing. More housing will just be bought by more speculators. I also think a massive tax on owning more than 5 properties would be helpful as well. Put the revenue from that into affordable housing subsidies.

      • devedeset@lemmy.zip
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        4 months ago

        If you build enough housing it gets back into being economically competitive for the average person to own their home. Speculators can speculate until it doesn’t make sense any more.

        We got into the current situation because we slowed way down on building homes.

    • MirthfulAlembic@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      It doesn’t need to be an either-or situation. We can attack the problem from multiple sides, since there’s isn’t a silver bullet. New housing absolutely has to be part of it, but obviously it’s not super helpful if the new stock isn’t affordable or practical for average people.

      Counterproductive regulations (restrictive zoning, vetocracy setups) have prevented environmentally sensible and affordable housing from being added in sufficient quantities in most of the US for a long time. We have more people living in smaller households than we used to; it just doesn’t math without adding new stock.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      I’ve said time and time again that “building more houses” is not the solution.

      I mean, it’s also been said that a lot of these empty houses are in rural/suburban neighborhoods outside of dying industrial centers. We’re effectively talking about “Ghost Towns”, with no social services and a deteriorating domestic infrastructure, that people are deliberately abandoning.

      And we’re stacking that up against the homeless encampments that appear in large, dense, urban environments where social services are (relatively) robust and utilities operate at full capacity around the clock.

      Picking people up from under the I-10 overpass and moving them to

      doesn’t address homelessness as a structural problem. It just shuttles people around the state aimlessly and hopes you can squirrel them away where your voters won’t see them anymore.

      At some point, you absolutely do need to build more apartment blocks and rail corridors and invest in local/state/federal public services again, such that you can gainfully employ (or at least comfortably retire) people with no future economic prospects. You can’t just take folks out to shacks in the boonies and say “Homelessness Resolved!”

        • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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          4 months ago

          …But nobody wants to live there.

          You could give a bunch of homeless people housing, but there’s simply no structure around it. They have no money, and there’s no jobs. There’s no services around. They won’t be much better off than homeless in a big city tbh. Might be WORSE off.

          There needs to be available housing near the places where there’s actually things to do, jobs to hold, services to use.

          Worst part is, I bet a LOT of those ghots towns are suburban, not urban - so it makes it more difficult and expensive to build up a new community there. Everything is spaced out

          • zaki_ft@lemmings.world
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            4 months ago

            They create the economic activity.

            More people living in an area means there’s more to do and more people to do it.

            On average, each additional person contributes more than they take out.

            • village604@adultswim.fan
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              4 months ago

              That’s really not how it works. If you’re homeless you’re not in a position to be a job creator.

              • zaki_ft@lemmings.world
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                4 months ago

                More people living in a location means there is more work to be done and more people to do it.

                Each additional person, on average, can contribute more than they take out.

                • Lyrl@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  4 months ago

                  Homeless people, on average, contribute less to society than housed people, on average. Generally multiple societal structural failures and bad luck are major contributions to a person ending up homeless, but their own genetic- and nuture-driven characteristics play a role, too, and having a higher physical and mental disability burden than the average human is common.

                  Also, living remotely often means subsistence is a major part of how people get on, and subsistence is an intensely knowledge- and skill-based task highly specific to locale. Hunting in rural Alaska is not immediately transferable to hunting in Greenland, and dumping someone in rural Montana is not going to poof make them an expert gatherer.

                • village604@adultswim.fan
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                  4 months ago

                  More people living in a location means there is more work to be done and more people to do it.

                  If that were universally applicable the towns wouldn’t be dying to begin with. The houses are empty because there’s a lack of available work.