• pr06lefs@lemmy.ml
    501·
    10 天前

    MJ: “you know, I’m something of a snake in the grass myself”

      • AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml
        12·
        7 天前

        Are you implying that Michael Jackson was a pedophile? Because that has been pretty much proven to be completely false. Like with overwhelming absence of evidence.

        If such things as truth and justice matter to you at all of course. Maybe you said this just for the lulz.

        I saw this meme pop up on reddit, and it’s reposted here and follows the same disgusting trajectory here. “Oh look MJ stole!” No he didn’t, he credited Bob Fosse who admired MJ for being an amazing dancer and perfecting this style.

        “Oh look it’s a snake and a child, get it? get it?” - no he was innocent and framed by the media and racist prosecutors and people seeking money.

        I’m so sick how stupid evil will always triumph over justice and truth because it is so relentless and “so yummy” and “fun” to spew this shit. People have learned nothing today from OP except reinforcing the lies.

  • Worstdriver@lemmy.world
    486·
    9 天前

    MJ was heavily abused physically and mentally in his youth. Being raised as a Jehovah’s Witness fucks you up in a lot of ways so those of us from that era and background were never surprised at how he became a fucked up adult.

    And to be clear, none of that excuses the things he did, but it does help explain how they came to be.

    • BrickEater@lemmy.world
      81·
      8 天前

      What’d he do tho? Because everything I’ve seen says he’s pretty much exonerated/ claims were false and coerced.

  • BCsven@lemmy.ca
    31·
    9 天前

    Hmm, all MJ moves weren’t his. Its like all his moves are from just this movie.

    • Noblesavage@lemmy.world
      217·
      9 天前

      I mean, yes and no. You can see all the iconic MJ moves in Bob Fosse’s performance here, but they’re not quite the same. As well, Bob Fosse, as far as I know and I honestly don’t know anything beyond this clip and I can’t be bothered to look it up, wasn’t also a singer and songwriter.

      As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art - every great artist has either copied or stolen from someone else.

      Terry Pratchett, an author that I greatly respect and admire, straight up stole/paid homage to all kinds of pop culture movies and science and quotes - he dressed up those stories and made them his own.

      Rap artists off all kinds will steal bars and hooks from one another all the time.

      I guess my point is, at what point is it paying homage to something and at what point is it stealing? If someone truly made something original it would likely be rejected for being so obscure as to be offensive to “good taste.”

      • Nangijala@feddit.dk
        16·
        9 天前

        Isn’t the whole point of Terry Prachett’s works to create witty and endearing satire? I always read his books as him looking at our world and reality through the perspective of a very intelligent, childlike mind, that questions and rejects our world as for being nonensical and through Discworld, he makes a world that makes a lot more sense even if it appears absolutely bonkers. To Discworld, we are the weirdos. That is what I really enjoyed about his books. He forces you to think about the absurdity of our reality by asking frankly ridiculous questions and then through his clever storytelling and social and political commentary, he always manages to deliver a well thought out point that makes you appreciate all kinds of facettes of life.

        In the case of Terry Prachett, the theft of ideas is the entire point and not a natural bi product of being a creative.

        • katze@lemmy.4d2.org
          3·
          9 天前

          That is the best description of the Discworld books that I have ever read. How you describe it was “clear” to me for 20 years now, but I could have never stated this fact as eloquently as you did here.

          • Nangijala@feddit.dk
            3·
            9 天前

            Thank you, friend xD i am a bit surprised because i was a very sleepy bish when i wrote my comment and felt like i was writing word salad, but went “fuck it. This is as good as it gets. Post!”

            Glad my comment was more coherent than i thought and that it resonated with a fellow Terry Prachett-appreciater! <3

      • elucubra@sopuli.xyz
        61·
        9 天前

        As well, there is rarely ever an original form of art

        Please reread what you wrote.

        from the first arranging of some feathers, or charcoal finger strokes in some cave a hundred thousand years ago, EVERY new thing, color, stroke, note arrangement, word composition, has been original. Some of these, of course, have been used as a basis or inspiration, or part of newer artistic expressions. Often, it’s nature that provides the inspiration. La Sagrada Familia cathedral is inspired by these stalagmites children (and some adults) make by dropping watery sand down a mound, for example.

        It’s like saying that when some hominin drew a circle in the sand, and another who saw him drew a square, the second one copied him. Well, you could say the 2nd copied the moving finger in the sand, but it fucking invented the square. Yeah, I know, Pyrite et Al. would like a word.

        Michael Jackson literally cloned these moves and style. Almost 100%.

        Although there is a fine (blurry?) line between inspiration and imitation, MJ was waaaay inside the imitation demarcation.

        • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
          1·
          9 天前

          Give a different concept to Smooth Criminal if you wantch the scene in its entirety from the movie.

      • rumba@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2·
        9 天前

        Stealing a bar, or a concept, or a sample, all are really normal, as they’re transforming the art. They’re meant to help you remember the old piece with a little nostalgia.

        He took 100% of the choreography here from a movie that was hardly seen in the US. This is not to say he wasn’t talented at it. But you throw that together with a moonwalk and a few other pieces and you have 100% of his stage presence.

        • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
          7·
          8 天前

          Rather than seeing it as “copying,” Fosse viewed Jackson’s work as the natural evolution of dance and praised Jackson’s precision and talent. In Sam Wasson’s biography Fosse, the legendary choreographer praised Jackson’s movement: “He’s one of the greatest dancers I’ve ever seen… maybe since Astaire, because he’s so fast… and because when he extends his arm or his leg or whatever, it goes completely out and then right back. Not half out, not one quarter, not nine tenths. It goes completely out and then right back—fast. But it’s complete. Every action is complete.”

          The respect was mutual. Jackson openly acknowledged Fosse as a major inspiration and personally met with him, telling Fosse, “You’ve changed the face of dance. You’ve been an inspiration to me.”

          https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1w8zmd6/michael_jacksons_iconic_style_fashion_and/

      • Crewman@sopuli.xyz
        42·
        9 天前

        Don’t know what you’re talking about, Shakespeare wrote the first story about two people falling in love. That not ending well, also Shakespeare original.

      • Snapz@lemmy.world
        26·
        9 天前

        You sound confident, but no…

        “Not quite the same” is frankly, respectfully, a semantic bullshit position here. All of what Jackson did was 99.7% the spirit of this Fosse performance. Period.

        Further your point about rap is off as well because they don’t “steal”, they sample - meaning they license the use with legal permission OR they pay in court after the fact. It’s listed in the liner notes and credit is given directly, unlike with Jackson and Fosse as I’d never once heard or read this growing up.

        So again, you sound confident, while being very wrong.

  • dan1101@lemmy.worldEnglish
    231·
    10 天前

    Wonder where Bob Fosse got it? A combination of previous performers or something completely original, which is rare.

    • LilB0kChoy@reddthat.com
      83·
      9 天前

      Every time that happens I’m reminded of the saying, “You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into”.

        • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          2·
          8 天前

          Well, one reason might be that he’s had enough of being dragged through the courts?

            • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
              1·
              8 天前

              Of course you do!

              For example: Kevin Spacey was accused of A LOT of heinous shit and in at least one case the charges were so ridiculous that HE got awarded recompense by the court.

              Then you have THIS. Just in 2010s you have 28 cases of people wrongfully convicted (convicted - they went to prison while being innocent)!

                • Alaknár@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                  1·
                  7 天前

                  He was deemed not guilty in every single court case that wasn’t thrown out, and the majority of the cases were thrown out.

                  Considering Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein were convicted at roughly the same time, and how both of them had much higher wealth/influence than Spacey, there’s a high chance that Spacey is actually innocent if he went free.