• velma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    118
    arrow-down
    18
    ·
    3 days ago

    “Transsexual” is a pretty dated term and this article is from 2012.

    Might want to find something more recent and without that language to post instead.

    • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      47
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      Hijacking top comment to also add that there are words for men who are attracted to femininity outside of the bounds of cisgender women: gynesexual (older term, less inclusive due to implication of a vagina) and finsexual (newer term, more inclusive and drops implication of a vagina).

      It is quite likely that many of those men actually fall into these categories even if they have not accepted that about themselves as of yet. Others are bisexual, and even others are pansexual, and haven’t “come out” as it were.

      Especially if this is relying on self-reporting and how often men want to appear straight, the number of men who are wrestling with such feelings but still put down “straight” is probably quite high.

      • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        26
        ·
        3 days ago

        even if they have not accepted that about themselves

        They also may not even know. The whole thing is a political minefield and trying to join in any conversation without knowing all the words tends to trigger a massive overreaction from allies and bigots alike.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          I mean it’s why I hate people who self apply the term “ally” because a lot of “allies” do more harm than help.

          Allyship is to be determined by those who need allies, not the people who talk big and claim to be allies while doing fuck-all.

          If someone from a minority community decides I am an ally to their cause and calls me an “ally” then I am an ally, not because I self applied a bullshit label to make myself feel better about cisgender white guilt or something.

          • tmyakal@infosec.pub
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            2 days ago

            My workplace has a corporate-sponsored advocacy network. Basically, they organize little fundraisers and events throughout the year, and march in the pride parade while wearing the company logo. It’s… fine, I guess. Certainly the most inclusive gesture of any company I’ve ever worked for. But the entire network is straight, white women who identify as allies.

            I tried going to a few events when I first joined the company, but it’s real weird being the only queer person at the Lunchtime Dance Party Charity Fundraiser. Like, they didn’t even play any Kylie Minogue. WTF?

          • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            2 days ago

            I would argue that one can be a self professed ally and still be an ally, even if you did it wrong.

            Sometimes, just being willing to stand up and say “those people there? Those are my people, and I stand with them” is a powerful thing, even if the person saying it ends up being a fuckwit overall.

            So, even folks that claim alliance to an oppressed group can end up a net positive just by inflating numbers, even when their specific views and actions aren’t well considered otherwise.

            I get where you’re coming from though!

      • 🔍🦘🛎@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 days ago

        I consider myself straight, but ‘finsexual’ seems to be the most accurate. I’ve never heard the term before, but isn’t straight still accurate here?

        • Watermark710@piefed.social
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 days ago

          I feel like straight applies. I’m a straight dude. Trans women are women, so I don’t need a special term to point out that I don’t care if a woman is trans or not. Hot women are hot. Cis, trans, whatever. Pre-op, post-op, doesn’t matter. Women are pretty.

        • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          Coined in July of 2014 on tumblr:

          https://web.archive.org/web/20150324190159/pride-flags-for-us.tumblr.com/tagged/androsexual

          The “fin” prefix means “feminine in nature” and so the opposite where you’re attracted to people “masculine in nature” is minsexual. This confuses a lot of people because normally a prefix isn’t also an acronym, it’s usually from a root word.

          So, I think it’s a good replacement for gynesexual/androsexual, despite the slightly confusing nature of its origin.

          • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            ·
            edit-2
            3 days ago

            Thank you! Not gonna lie, that was underwhelming. Also, I really hope the double f and double m variants don’t stick, because that is a hot mess. While the new terms clarify language and improve communication, the doubles just make communication hard and imprecise.

            • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              ·
              3 days ago

              Yeah I agree on that, the doubles make it way more confusing, and its confusing enough to people since the prefix is an acronym while people are scanning dictionaries trying to figure out a root word that doesn’t exist.

      • velma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        3 days ago

        Thank you! I actually learned about those two terms recently, I appreciate you putting those out here!

        My husband is finsexual and it’s nice to have a more accurate word for it :)

    • Victor@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      I thought “trans” was short for transsexual? Could someone bring me up to speed here?

      In what way is it outdated?

      • TheMadCodger@piefed.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        3 days ago

        It used to be transsexual, but now it’s transgender owing to the differences between sex and gender.

        • Victor@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          What I’m reading when looking it up is that “trans” is an umbrella term for both.

          Are there any good references for this?

          Also seems to be that you could be transsexual without being transgender. What if you identify as internal male but feel like your body should be female? Is that not possible? Maybe I’m overthinking it.

          • can@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            2 days ago

            What if you identify as internal male but feel like your body should be female? Is that not possible? Maybe I’m overthinking it.

            I think that’s probably possible but I don’t think transgender or transsexual would be the way to describe that? I don’t know, I like language and think I’m up to date on terms but I’m probably not compared to those inside those spaces. But then again with threadiverse as my main social media I might as well be lol.

          • TheMadCodger@piefed.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            ·
            3 days ago

            Eh, sort of. Transvestite refers to someone who wears clothes of the opposite gender (trans = across, vestir = to clothe, to wear), and really that mainly applied to men wearing women’s clothes, because a woman wearing pants is questionable, but a man wearing a dress? There’s clearly something wrong with them!

            As clothing “norms” became more old fashioned, that word fell into disuse.

          • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 days ago

            It is correct, but the former has become a slur over time, nor does “transexual” match because it’s not about who you desire, it’s about who you are. Heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, finsexual are all about what kind person(s) you desire sexually. It’s a mismatch and it is now a slur.

            So it means transgender. Unless you’re an asshole.

            • Victor@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 days ago

              Huh, I would think the “-sexual” was referring to your sex. Odd. I guess it became guilty by association with those other, similar-sounding words.

    • homes@piefed.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      I often wonder about the contemporaneous use of that word, and I think it’s mostly geared toward a particular audience by writers who mostly don’t know better. Perhaps because they or their editors are afraid to use the word “transgender“ due to the politically charged nature surrounding it at the moment, and believe (falsely) that using the word “transsexual” yes, somehow, less offensive.

      I really wish they wouldn’t.

      However, considering that this article is 14 years old, the use of this term is most likely a product of ignorance. And, as usual, I’m probably overthinking things.

    • YoureHotCupCake@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      3 days ago

      No its not dated, generally transgender is used instead but many trans folks still use transsexual especially those that have undergone bottom surgery.

    • abbadon420@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 days ago

      Wouldn’t a “transsexual” be someone who has a strong sexual preference for transgender people?

      • velma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        ·
        3 days ago

        That’s not what the historic definition of the word is, but I don’t know if people are trying to reclaim it and redefine it so I can’t speak on that.

        I do know that it is seen as offensive generally.

    • NaoPb@eviltoast.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      3 days ago

      I’ve learned that transgender is an umbrella term which could range from men who like to wear a dress, to drag queens, to people transitioning out of the gender assumed at their birth. Is this correct? And what would be the term for the latter group?

      • velma@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        ·
        3 days ago

        Crossdressing is not the same as being transgender. There can be overlap, but there’s plenty of men who like to crossdress.

      • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        3 days ago

        Not as far as I know. I’m a bit of a layman on the topic, trying to learn as well. But, AFAIK, Transgender is someone that has or is in the process of transitioning to a different gender than the one assigned at birth. It doesn’t require specific actions (dress change, hormones, surgery, anything), only that the person decides they’ll assume their true gender.

        So, in the order you presented: crossdresser, drag queen, transgender.

        • velma@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          edit-2
          3 days ago

          Crossdressing is not the same as being transgender.

          There’s plenty of drag queens who are cis men and not trans women.

          The term transgender is used to describe a person whose gender identity is different from the one that they were born into or what is noted on their birth certificate. Transgender people do not believe that the sex they were assigned at birth and their gender identifies are the same.

          For the most part, cross-dressers are usually heterosexual people who wear clothing traditional of the opposite sex.

          The most common example of a crossdresser is a man who wears traditionally feminine clothing such as dresses or skirts. Depending on the person and situation, a cross-dresser may or not identify or associate themselves with the LGBTQ community.

            • velma@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              3 days ago

              There isn’t an order to it. It’s not some progressive timeline of you start crossdressing, then you start doing drag, then you transistion.

              I’m sure some people have followed that path, but crossdressing and drag should not be seen as strictly done by transgender people.

              • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                3 days ago

                Not a time order, the order in which the OC presented their 3 examples. What to name:

                1. A man that wears dresses: crossdresser
                2. A drag queen: drag queen
                3. Someone who is transitioning: transgender

                I hope what I meant is clear now.