I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I advocate for every policy that will reduce carbon emissions, and I will celebrate both a denied permit and a carbon tax instead of demonizing one of them. Maybe if otherwise likeminded folks like yourself didn’t spend so much time dumping on carbon taxes in favor of your “ideal” policy, we’d have slightly higher support.
What an odd revisionist characterization. Schultz was active in many administrations, including Regan’s. You’re both elevating his relevance to the movement (one which your own link at the Volt describes as left leaning grassroots campaigners) and mischaracterizing the entire approach. Reaganomics is synonymous with tax cuts, deregulation, and “trickle down”. A carbon fee and dividend is not a tax cut, it’s not deregulation, and it’s the opposite of trickle down. Schultz was also a key part of Montreal protocol, literally the most effective international policy of all time. Is the Montreal protocol “Reaganomics” as well?
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/about-ccl/advisory-board/george-p-shultz/
There are many, many more people involved in CCL than you’re attempting to characterize here, including a wide mix of academics. That’s because they promote good policy.
As to the Volt article you linked, while interesting, all it says is that support tends to be static for the first few years in two countries. It should surprise anyone that conservatives in Alberta are still against a carbon tax a few years later. This isn’t even the right success metric - what matters is effectiveness over time. Public perception needs to be high enough to avoid a repeal, and not higher. You still haven’t addressed your original claim that the fossil fuels lobby is behind a carbon tax, which they so obviously are not.
Your “solutions” are a fine a slow way to transform one sector of the economy - electricity generation. That’s not enough, and it’s not fast enough. I’m not saying don’t do those things too - I love the IRA and I love federal efficiency standards and gas bans and all that good stuff, but no reason to argue against some rocket fuel to accelerate carbon reductions (and touch the rest of the economy).
Pretty sure if e.g. the US manages to pass a carbon fee, Greta herself wouldn’t say that fossil lobby won, she’d probably say great, now also do XYZ and raise the carbon price higher while you’re at it. That’s a much more mainstream attitude.
You can’t just call any market based solution “Reaganomics”, but ok. It’s logically inconsistent to say that carbon taxes are favored by industry and neoliberals, when those very people aren’t actually pushing for carbon taxes. Since neoliberals and industry have a stranglehold on policy and they haven’t done it, I must conclude you’re wrong. Why don’t you cite some of the voices "in the climate movement " that are against carbon taxes? I’m not seeing them. What I see is trust the science, and the desire to build political momentum that will results in the science based solutions coming into effect. Things like ending fossil fuels subsidies, requiring utilities switch to renewables, increasing vehicle emissions standards, incentives for electrification, and yes, carbon taxes.
I’m really curious what your actual solution is here. How are you going to get everyone to leave the oil and gas in the ground? A white whale is something you can’t actually find - seems like destroying capitalism or whatever your vague idea is fits that description much better than pricing in externalities via a tax, something that can very simply be layered in to our market structures with our current institutions (and something that is actually happening in dozens of countries, but is somehow impossible according to you).
Then why does CCL actively promote carbon fee and dividend as its most beneficial policy? Your logic doesn’t even make sense - you’re saying the fossil lobby would love to be taxed further? Nonsense. If that were true, we’d have a carbon fee enacted decades ago. It’s not innately regressive, and your reasoning doesn’t even make sense because your entire premise rests on complexity = bad, not any actual logic. This isn’t to say it’s politically feasible, but you haven’t offered a politically feasible method for just stopping drilling altogether. All a carbon fee does is offer a revenue neutral way to slowly and surely shift everyone’s behavior by pricing in externalities. It’s very much viable and equitable, and if you think it’s somehow harder than banning fuel and banning capitalism you’re simply not being serious. We have a market mechanism to prevent bad behavior - taxes and fees. Let’s use them. Feel free to ban extraction too, but that’s not where I’ll be focusing my personal lobbying efforts.
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/basics-carbon-fee-dividend/
They weren’t talking about how long EVs have been around, but for anyone curious EVs generally predate ICE cars and were quite popular around 1900. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020
This what you said. You’re comparing a 2020 number without nuclear to a 2022 number with nuclear. That’s dumb and misleading. That doesn’t make me a douche, it makes you wrong and petty. Grow up and just try to get your numbers and facts straight.
You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear “renewable”, so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.
Source? I haven’t seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it’s not 40%. I’m speaking of electricity production, but I can’t think of a reasonable metric that’s anywhere near 40% nationally. Let’s try to stick to reality here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States
Exactly. And now Kigali is sort of trying to right the HFC wrong, but the chemical industry isn’t going down without a fight and we’ll be left with TFAs everywhere because of the new shitty HFOs. Everyone needs to just use natural refrigeratants.
For anyone reading and wondering what they can do, next time you buy a refrigerator make sure it’s R600a (isobutane) and also write your elected leaders or bribe your dictator to mandate natural refrigerants. If you’re in the right market, buy R290 monoblock heat pumps. Buy a car with an R744 heat pump if you can. Also make sure any product with refrigerant that you own is disposed of properly.
Fun fact - the Montreal protocol that replaced CFCs with HFCs prevented more warming than the Kyoto protocol, which was explicitly designed to do just that while it was a complete afterthought for Montreal. Refrigerants really matter.
Awesome. I so wanted the Sanco2 but the price put it out of reach, and we don’t use enough hot water toake the payback remotely reasonable. For anyone else reading, it’s an R744 (CO2) refrigerant system that’s massively better for the environment than HFCs (and HFOs) as well.
There’s a federal tax credit worth 2k for HPWH. I’m not aware of any Ohio specific subsidies, although there are programs coming through the IRA that are run through the states and will offer more incentives.
The overwhelming majority of even high end cold climate ASHPs do not function at -40 C/F. -20F, that’s doable.
Second the NEEP database. I’d just add that the lowest temps listed here aren’t the actual equipment minimums - each model has a cutoff temp where it will literally shit the bed (except ground source of course). For my mistu hyper heat, it’s -26F. Capacity will keep dropping after -13F though (where it’s still at like 80% I think).
You made the most sensible choice and are dramatically reducing you gas use, so you should feel good about that! I have a new Mitsu hyper heat (Colorado here), but recognize it wasn’t the most cost effective system and ultimately just really wanted it. It’s bonkers how well it work though. We’ve only hit 10F this last weekend but it didn’t skip a beat. Looking forward to -10F. For most people, keeping a gas furnace for a few weeks a year, and using a smaller heat pump than you would spec if only using a HP makes a lot of sense. You’re not missing much (and some would argue that peak winter demand in an electrifying world is a big problem that has backup gives us more time to solve anyway).
MFers need a refresher on the concept of absolute zero.
I think I gave off the wrong impression that these are more linked than they are, sorry. Many states require cost effective EE because it’s generally good policy (benefits outweigh costs), and some of those benefits include not having to build new capacity. PUCs generally also support infrastructure investments, and with guaranteed rates of return on most T&D for example, it’s a no brainer. So states are often doing both, and there are varying options about the merits of each. To your question though, one notable recent example is the gas pipeline that Gov Cuomo vetoed, which led to more gas efficiency programs in downstate NY.
I’m also embarrassed to report I can’t think of a good source for you since I’m in the industry, other than primary sources like utility financial statements, rate cases, state regulations, etc. Hope this was helpful - it’s a fascinating industry.
This is not a remotely accurate assessment of demand side management programs. Such programs are overwhelmingly required of IOUs by states since they tend to be cheaper than infrastructure upgrades for everyone. Utilities on the other hand tend to prefer infrastructure upgrades because they get a guaranteed rate of return typically. You have this completely backwards.
And the naysayers don’t actually run calculations to see what their true costs might be, they already decided gas is king. A couple of good ol boy type HVAC folks that all say “just get a furnace” is all they need to know, reality be damned.
I don’t agree with generalizing that ROI is slow and small. There are too many variables here specific to each market, location, and home. Someone with an old propane or oil boiler that is already planning to buy a new AC will absolutely see massive ROI going with a heat pump. In the US, federal standards will make furnaces more expensive (condensing only soon) and heat pump costs can be heavily subsidized. I bought a new HP that was cheaper than my neighbors new AC/furnace after incentives, and my running costs will be lower.
Capacity and generation are two different things. Grid operators have capacity markets that ensure peak load can be met, and incude generations assets, demand response, energy efficiency, etc. Batteries absolutely coumt as capacity so long as they are managed to do so.