Just a small note for clarity, but the US is not demanding a tariff from China. The US is imposing a tariff on goods from China, and US citizens are the ones that pay that. It’s not like Trump is asking China to fork over a bunch of money. He’s telling Americans that if they want Chinese goods they are going to have to pay even more. In theory, this would cause Americans to buy less of these goods because essentially they can’t afford them, and therefore China suffers, but money coming from the US is probably not going to affect China the way that increased tariffs will affect Americans.

I guess my main issue is that there are plenty of civilians who are making a stand who have not sworn any such oath.

I don’t mean this as a personal attack, but “I was young then - I have a family now” doesn’t really mean much to me, seeing as that applies to plenty of other people who are doing something. The alternative is not “get fired today”. I know government employees who were unceremoniously let go and offered nothing. This is not the choice these people were facing. My opinion of these people means nothing, and certainly means even less than nothing when compared to keeping their family safe, but this is not an SS officer demanding to know where you’re hiding the undesirables or they’ll kill your family. This is the party asking if you’ll kindly step aside so that they can install a nazi in your place. Admittedly, I don’t have a lot of faith in the ethics and morals of vets anyway. Veteran status is the second best single predictor of candidate choice (next to education), to my knowledge. So I guess I don’t really expect them to be any better than average, but it’s just sad to see that assumption is accurate.

For what it’s worth, your/their family will continue to be eligible for VA benefits regardless of where you’re/they’re currently employed. Most of those benefits have no civilian counterparts, so most civilians making that choice have even less safety net. I know Trump/republicans have been working hard to make sure you all don’t have a safety net either, but stepping down politely when asked isn’t making it harder for him to do that.

I truly hope martyrdom is not needed, but people will die because of Trump and they will not have the luxury of a choice. There will be people that stand in Trumps way, and those will unsurprisingly not be people who swore to protect the nation and its people. They’ll just be people choosing to do what they can when they can.

I do appreciate you sharing your perspective.

Maybe it’s just me, but when I see veterans taking buyouts or capitulating to Trump, it upsets me. They took an oath to defend the Constitution and yet they can’t stay in a job to making the incoming fascists work just a little harder? If they’re still referring to their time in the army or are eligible for VA benefits, they should be fighting fascism. We’re all trying our best, and I’m not asking everyone to stay, even though that’d be great if they could, but way to fold like a wet napkin.

Yea, there were klansmen voting for Obama because they legitimately thought it’d make the whole country kick out black people. People hold really weird beliefs.

It makes me so proud to see people talk about undocumented people positively, so thank you for sharing that (I’m assuming the impact they had was positive, apologies if that’s not the case).

Yea, plenty of people have latched onto the general ideology without familiarizing themselves with either the fundamentals or modern praxis. I will wholly admit that I’m not extremely well versed, having only read the most pop-philosophy books/essays. I like to think I make up for it in praxis, but I know we’re all works in progress and I could definitely still benefit from more reading/work. I think alienation has made actually connecting with the OG works harder, but hopefully both L and R magas and everyone in between gets a chance to find themselves in it. Thanks for the reminder.

That’s valid in theory, but I am literally just pointing out a fact. A fact which other people have gotten wrong and are actively spreading misinformation about. Misinformation that harms a minority and underprivileged population, which I’m assuming they care about. I feel like conceptually we should be on the same side, but they refused to even consider that someone else might be right so have just jumped to calling me illiterate apparently. I’m not saying that undocumented students should be deported or anything. I’m literally just advocating for them, because they exist, and it’s important that people know that. Otherwise when the government is accused of departing them everyone will act like they don’t exist and therefore can’t be deported.

I am legitimately struggling to tell the difference between fascists and overzealous leftists who just don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s a very bad position to be in. But, to your point, I guess either way I should give them grace, because obviously their issue is with the system and they are just mistakenly taking it out on me.

I truly do not understand the hostility here. It’s important that people understand that there are undocumented students on college campuses and that this legislation, like basically all legislation from this administration poses real harm to them. Please see the content of this comment I put elsewhere in this thread:

Dreamers is one of the names for undocumented people. DACA is legislation that’s been implemented to protect some of them. Did you even bother reading anything in the above link above? Here’s a direct quote: While there are over 408,000 undocumented students currently enrolled in postsecondary education, less than half (181,000) are DACA-eligible

DACA was implemented because dreamers were going to school already, it’s not HOW they go school.

DACA also does not make someone “documented”. It is a weird loophole, but their immigration status is still technically undocumented despite them being able to work and go to school. Basically the government promises not to do anything about them for a bit. They have to keep renewing that promise. It’s not like a normal visa. The government is not actually giving them a “right” to stay.

See here: “DACA/DACA-mented Students who are DACA recipients (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), also known as “DACA-mented” students, are still considered undocumented students even though they may have a social security number and/or an Employment Authorization Card. DACA students should follow the same steps as an undocumented student when applying to SOU. A copy of your Employment Authorization Card is not required for admission processing.”

And

“Some undocumented students may be part of DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) while others are not.” https://sou.edu/admissions/apply/uid/

“Deferred action is an exercise of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.” https://www.uscis.gov/DACA

I am quite familiar with this particular status. It seems like everybody else is going off of vibes, and not even bothering to take two seconds to google this. Are you familiar with the definition of documented/undocumented? It’s not as simple as the way it’s used in general conversation.

Undocumented students can and do go to college. Some of them are eligible for DACA. DACA does not make you documented.

Dreamers is one of the names for undocumented people. DACA is legislation that’s been implemented to protect some of them. Did you even bother reading anything in the above link above? Here’s a direct quote: While there are over 408,000 undocumented students currently enrolled in postsecondary education, less than half (181,000) are DACA-eligible

DACA was implemented because dreamers were going to school already, it’s not HOW they go school.

DACA also does not make someone “documented”. It is a weird loophole, but their immigration status is still technically undocumented despite them being able to work and go to school. Basically the government promises not to do anything about them for a bit. They have to keep renewing that promise. It’s not like a normal visa. The government is not actually giving them a “right” to stay.

See here: “DACA/DACA-mented Students who are DACA recipients (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals), also known as “DACA-mented” students, are still considered undocumented students even though they may have a social security number and/or an Employment Authorization Card. DACA students should follow the same steps as an undocumented student when applying to SOU. A copy of your Employment Authorization Card is not required for admission processing.”

And

“Some undocumented students may be part of DACA (Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals) while others are not.” https://sou.edu/admissions/apply/uid/

“Deferred action is an exercise of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.” https://www.uscis.gov/DACA

I am quite familiar with this particular status. It seems like everybody else is going off of vibes, and not even bothering to take two seconds to google this. Are you familiar with the definition of documented/undocumented? It’s not as simple as the way it’s used in general conversation.

Undocumented students can and do go to college. Some of them are eligible for DACA. DACA does not make you documented.

Sometimes I can’t tell if I’m arguing with fascists who are attempting to waste my time, or people who are so incapable or uninterested in the conversation they don’t even bother to read the links I readily provided, but for some reason are willing to respond multiple times. Please let me know which you are, so I know if I should even bother with the rest of this conversation.

This is easily googleable and I’ve provided links.

I have no idea why people prefer to spread misinformation instead of taking two seconds to fact check.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/resources/undocumented-students/college-application-guide/

A lot of (if not most) allow you to apply without some of that information and I’ve seen specific workflows set up for undocumented students depending on the school. You can Google most of it, but here’s one of the first results: https://www.bestcolleges.com/resources/undocumented-students/college-application-guide/

There’s a picture of her in the article at several months pregnant, and you can tell she’s wearing baggier clothes, but not much baggier. She says she gained a little weight but not much. It’s a recognized thing among doctors, so not sure why you’re struggling to believe it.

Dreamers are undocumented immigrants who arrived in the United States as children, lived and attended school here, and identify as American.

https://www.presidentsalliance.org/breakdown-of-dreamer-with-and-without-daca/

What are you saying?

Plenty of people at universities never had a visa in the first place.

https://www.thedream.us/news/new-survey-of-dreamer-college-graduates-highlights-importance-of-daca-on-social-mobility-and-workforce-contributions/

You definitely do find undocumented students at universities. There’s a whole name for them and legislation that has attempted to protect them.

Visa revocation is also a thing they are doing though.

https://www.thedream.us/news/new-survey-of-dreamer-college-graduates-highlights-importance-of-daca-on-social-mobility-and-workforce-contributions/

Well, they also don’t like the natives, or themselves, so honestly good work keeping true to the book. 🙃

Regarding the post title, I didn’t mean to indicate it being your decision, just that the title in general feels misleading, seeing as no argument is presented and it purports to be about “why” you should do something.

I don’t really know a lot about the difference between instances, so I can’t really opine on that. From what I’m seeing, it does look as though people are having a discussion, they just don’t seem to agree with the idea as presented.

I’m not saying it has to be longer format. I’m saying no argument is made. She could have gave ai the same prompt but with a please and compared the results. I have done so below. She could have used the irrelevant middle section to just display screenshots.

It’s fine if you think people should be polite to ai. I think that’s great, but if you feel that way regardless of effect on response quality then this video doesn’t really make that point either. I think a post saying that and offering your personal opinions might’ve prompted more discussion on that topic rather than just disagreement with a video that doesn’t make that argument.

Here are two prompt comparisons. There is imho no difference in quality when saying please. The same results can be seen regardless of prompt length or how polite I was, I just chose short examples that could have been used in a video if they actually illustrated her point.

List five animals

Here are five animals:

1. Lion
2. Octopus
3. Koala
4. Penguin
5. Jaguar

List five animals please

Here are five animals:

1. Tiger
2. Dolphin
3. Raccoon
4. Falcon
5. Elephant

Create a limerick about being polite

There once was a person so fine, Whose manners were truly divine. They’d say “please” with a grin, And “thank you” within, And their politeness was truly sublime.

Create a limerick about being polite please

There once was a person so bright, Whose politeness was a delight. They’d hold doors with care, And listen with flair, And their kindness was always in sight.

What do you mean you don’t buy my argument? My argument that it is more detrimental to workers than owners? Then I’m not sure you understand capitalism, because money in workers pockets is inherently more impactful than money in a capitalists bank account. It’s a drop in the ocean for large corporations, but can be the difference between food or housing or healthcare to a worker. The company would be spending that money anyways, so it’s already accounted for. The nominal cost of recruitment is just going to come from a salary at the end of the day. All it does is serve to incentivize companies adding extra hoops to the hiring process and potentially screening out real people or causing extra stress/work to apply. This will not discourage workers from applying, since you know, the threat of capitalism still looms large and worker protections are low and are being dismantled day by day.

If you’re not coming from an anti capitalist place, then you’re right, I don’t get it.

I get where you’re coming from, but it’s pretty clear they are saying the fake applicants would not actually be doing the work. They are just taking the place of people actually out there looking for jobs and making the job search that much harder. Capitalists aren’t suffering from this as much as workers are suffering from it.

That’s fair, but the are handing him these wins. All of his picks have been smooth sailing and if they had a spine they could impeach him right now. It’s not that there are no ways to stop this, it’s that he’s “too big to fail” and the Rs let it get this way.

I think the issue is the post title. If the title was “role-based prompt engineering” you probably wouldn’t have gotten as many comments and certainly not as many disagreeing. She says she’s going to make a case for using please, and then fails to provide any actual examples of that. Pointing that out isn’t sanctimonious, nor does it mean people are being rude to AI. If you want to make a moral argument for it go ahead, but it seems like she’s attempting to propose a technical argument and then just doesn’t. For what it’s worth, I generally try and leave out superfluous words from prompts, in the same way that googling full sentences was previously less likely to result in a good answer than just key words. AI is not human. It’s a tool. If being rude to it ensured it would stop hallucinating, I don’t think it’d make you a bad person if you were rude to it.

There’s a comment here talking about antisocial behavior in gaming, and imho, if you without hesitation kick a dog in a video game, I’m not sure I’d view you the same way after. Plenty of people talk about how they struggle to do evil play throughs because they don’t like using rude options for npcs. Not saying please to AI doesn’t make you a psychopath.